Remove a class level to later gain a class level

[arbados]

The group I have been playing with has advanced their characters to about 10th level. Some are very pleased with their choices in the classes they have chosen others feel that they had wished they had taken a different route. I was thinking of implementing a house rule to allow a player to remove a previously chosen class level so that in the future they can take a different path.

For example, one player had taken 5 levels of bard and then started to take wizard levels. They really started to enjoy the wizard class and wished that they could have taken all wizard levels instead of choosing the 5 bard levels. Obviously, currently with the bard levels it would take them many more xp's and much longer to attain a very high level wizard. They rarely, if ever, now use their bard abilities.

I am thinking of allowing the player to eliminate a bard level, thus bringing the xp's nescessary to attain another wizard level much less. In this way the player will take a path which they would be much more pleased with and excited about playing that character. They have a great fondness for their character but are role playing that since meeting a powerful wizard in the game have attained an interest in this sort of magic.

I felt that in order to allow them to remove a bard level (and possibly more than one down the road) they would have to refrain from using any of the bard abilities for a certain number of game sessions (or time within the game world).

In this instance I can say that they have lost that knowledge of the bard because of their lack of training. Then they could re-attain a level when they aquire enough xp's and take a wizard if they so choose.

What do you think?

 

[Oni]

For ingame explanation you could make some sort of magic ritual out of it. A sort of selective amnesia that allows a person to make a fresh start.

Other than a reasonable ingame explanation I don't think you'll have any sort of problems, I say go for it if it will make the parties involved enjoy the experience more.

 

[Nifft]

Just make sure the skill points, Feats, HP, etc. also go away. If the character's been using his free MW Feat, make that stop. I suspect the HP are going to be a sticking point -- Bards are slightly tougher than Wizards -- but losing the skill points won't be a lark, either.

-- Nifft

 

[med stud]

Someone who takes one level as Wizard is learning the same amount of spells per day as someone else who takes one level of wizard, no matter what level they have. Still it is harder for a lvl 10 character to get that one wizard level then it is for a lvl 5 character.

I think a rational for that could be that the character is devoting training to his class all the time, "off the record" so to speak. So, IMC, you can forfeit that training and automaticly give up a class level over a week. The experience and everything that the class has given you is then lost. Then it is easier to raise your level in the class you want.

If that method is not allowed, consider capturing a wight or something like that and let it burn away your surplus levels. This method is very hard to explain in game, so it is easier to just allow levels to be dropped by will.

 

[N Hammer]

If you can work out all the details in your campain, go for it.

I myself would not allow it in my game. A player needs to take the time to decide the future of his character. He needs to live with the decisions he made.

 

[the Jester]

Yeah, I'm with N Hammer here. If it works for you, that's fine; but not in my game.

If you're allowing it for pcs, you should spring it on them with npcs they fight too. For example, if they're ready to confront the evil sorcerer and he turns out to have gained several monk levels and lost several sorcerer levels since they last fought him, it might mess up their cleverly worked out attack plan.

 

[dvvega]

Choices are choices ...

As previously stated, those choices have been made. It's like me looking back at my own life and thinking "I should have studied <insert course other than Electrical Engineering>" ... the choices I made created the person I am today.

This bard/wizard ...why did he become a wizard at level 6? What was the decision based on? Was he a dabbler (Bard) who decided that was the way to go?

If he retroactively changes his class levels then he is no longer the person he was. And the fact that he never uses his bard abilities is not a valid argument. Its a choice once again.

 

[fba827]

I'll admit that I am one of the people that would not allow this in my own game.

I view the development of the characters a result of the characters interaction with the game world.

As opposed to character development as a result of what the player thought up from day one in terms of the character's path.

That's my opinion though.

Now, if you do want to allow this I'd say to keep a couple things in mind

the process should not be casual or else it runs the risk of being too commonplace which in turn (taken to the extreme) will lead to few choices actually meaning anything since the players know they can always "undo" something if they find out a couple weeks later they don't like it or get bored with it.

I would say maybe a level drain from an enemy but considering the level you want to remove was not the most recent level gained, that would not work.

So, go for the more extreme... some big ritual (if prompted by the character) or else just the target of some freak magical or planar occurance ... not exactly, but along those lines in terms of scale.

 

[Saeviomagy]

dvvega - how many orcs did you have to kill to get your electrical engineering degree?

I see no problem with allowing someone to give up class levels, without a ritual or spell or other hoo-hah. They just cease studying, and forget. I would probably limit them so that they cannot give up the final class level (ie - once you have a level in bard, you will always have at least one bard level) - it just seems to make a bit more sense.

 

[dvvega]

Saev: I had to kill tinker gnomes ... lots of them ... and feast on their spleens.

As for giving things up ... a level drain would work ... if you got drained and didn't get it restored, that does remove a level of experience as it drains your life force away.

You can then go and learn new things.

Of course in the case of this bard/wizard you would have to lose all wizard levels, then bard levels then start again. That would suck.

However you should use level drain as a guide line ... let him lose a bard level but he has to gain the xp to replace the level perhaps?