D&D 4E Remove level drain from 4e!!

[Dragonblade]

Level draining is a clunky, broken and utterly unfun metagame mechanic from a bygone era. It needs to be removed from the game for a plethora of reasons.

Any encounter with level draining undead can potentially cripple a party and severely suck the enjoyment out of the game for the unfortunate player whose character was drained.

Enough so that I have even seen good players so discouraged and disheartened that they have dropped out of games entirely when their PC was the victim of level drain while the rest of party lucked out.

And I hate level drain as a DM as well. One bad encounter for the party can result in a severely unbalanced party, or a party effectively crippled to the point where they cannot even proceed to the next part of whatever adventure or quest I'm running them on. It makes balancing encounters with undead extremely difficult.

And I'll even go a step farther and say that level loss as a mechanic even for Raise Dead should be removed from the game. Assuming that Raise Dead even exists anymore. I would argue that it too should be removed (along with the plethora of save or die effects that require Raise Dead for balance purposes), but that is another debate. Don't want to derail this thread before it even starts.

 

[EricNoah]

I agree. I have never used it; I have since replaced it with a variety of effects to simulate that "wow am I drained" feeling (fatiguing or exhausting touch, Con damage, etc.).

I also do not penalize players for their characters' deaths. Dying is its own punishment.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Or just give it a duration - SpyCraft 2.0 allows a save after every mission to see if you recover one of the 'lost' levels.

The Auld Grump, permanently losing a level does indeed suck.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I, too, agree.

Thing is, they've already said something that implies they're going this route. At the seminar, Andy Collins was talking about XP. As he said, it's a measure of your level, not a resource to be spent, and as such, magic item creation no longer costs XP. At that point, one of the other designers (I think it was Rich Baker, but I can't be sure) added that there are no more monsters that "eat XP."

I cannot interpret that in any way other than meaning no more level drain.

 

[Frostmarrow]

The shock value of level drain is long gone. "What!? -I just lost a level?" I can still remember the nervous laughter of my fellow adventurers.

Now, its just a nuissance that does nothing towards making the game more fun.

 

[Dragonblade]

I have to say that posting over here is SO much better than posting on the WotC boards. The amount of hostility over there from some people just boggles my mind.

Anyway, I currently use a house rule that the negative levels inflicted by energy drain fade at the rate of 1 per day. The Restoration suite of spells can speed this recovery up by removing those negative levels right away.

I just hope that the tired level drain mechanic doesn't sneak its way into 4e.

 

[Li Shenron]

What do you mean permanent? Have you ever noticed that there are spells to remove drained levels? :\ It only takes a 7th level cleric to cast Restoration, and he's got 1 week time to remove all the drained levels. The worst that can happen is that he hasn't prepared it today, and the party needs to go to bed a little early...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I have to say that posting over here is SO much better than posting on the WotC boards. The amount of hostility over there from some people just boggles my mind.

Over here, we kill anyone who behaves in a hostile manner.

 

[DreamChaser]

After reading a series of books...I want to say the ColdFire Trilogy...but I can't be sure...I instituted a change that caused any level drain / negative level to be restored upon the death of the creature that caused it.

This allowed a energy drain to be potentially dangerous within the course of a combat and enabled a story driving aspect to any such monster...

"You watch in horror as the specter vanishes below the surface of the lake...you know unless you can find it again, the cold, dark areas in your mind and soul that appeared when the creature's hand passed through you will never be restored."

Still, ability damage reflects this just as well...lets hope no level drain.

DC

 

[psionotic]

We've been using a mechanic whereby lost levels (either from death or level drain) instead confer a cumulative -1 penalty on all d20 rolls until the character gains another level. Still to be feared, but doesn't put PCs significantly behind their fellows, or cause them to somehow unlearn abilities.

But yes, I'm firmly in the Let's-Kill-Level-Drain-Dead camp.