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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7925718" data-attributes="member: 93670">It came up &amp; got some discussion in a recent thread (is 5e the least challengig version?&nbsp; should sorcerer&nbsp; be merged?... I;m not sure) Much like getting rid of crit range/multiplier asf acp &amp; so on, they are a symptom of the oversimplification of too many things in 5e and cause problems in other areas.&nbsp; For example, they automatically scale &amp; pretty much anything that enhances them tends to enhance everything else or needs to be very powerful&nbsp; like wand of the warmage/pact keeper.A+1 sword applies to class features yes, but a paladin 1 fighter 19 wouldn't expect to have it apply to a 5d8 (max for divine smite) improved divine smite.Yes cantrips as written remove the old don't ever ever MC caster thing, but that leads to awkward problems in the classes themselves like magic being toned down a notch or three to compensate for the cantrip scaling.Removing the cradle till grave cantrips would free up a lot of interesting design space room within the classeses &amp; archtypes themselves while allowing a lot more room for specialized magic equipment depending on how things are changed.&nbsp; For example, I've given out cantrip wands that let the players cast the associated cantrip... chill touch, any caster can use it was one... times used was zero because everyone already had fire/radiant cantrips if not chilltouch &amp; felt there wan't a need to switch just because</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 7925718, member: 93670"] It came up & got some discussion in a recent thread (is 5e the least challengig version? should sorcerer be merged?... I;m not sure) Much like getting rid of crit range/multiplier asf acp & so on, they are a symptom of the oversimplification of too many things in 5e and cause problems in other areas. For example, they automatically scale & pretty much anything that enhances them tends to enhance everything else or needs to be very powerful like wand of the warmage/pact keeper. A+1 sword applies to class features yes, but a paladin 1 fighter 19 wouldn't expect to have it apply to a 5d8 [I][SIZE=1](max for divine smite)[/SIZE][/I] improved divine smite. Yes cantrips as written remove the old don't ever ever MC caster thing, but that leads to awkward problems in the classes themselves like magic being toned down a notch or three to compensate for the cantrip scaling. Removing the cradle till grave cantrips would free up a lot of interesting design space room within the classeses & archtypes themselves while allowing a lot more room for specialized magic equipment depending on how things are changed. For example, I've given out cantrip wands that let the players cast the associated cantrip... chill touch, any caster can use it was one... times used was zero because everyone already had fire/radiant cantrips if not chilltouch & felt there wan't a need to switch just because [/QUOTE]

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