D&D 4E Removing Magic (Items) from 4E

[Daniel D. Fox]

Sorry for asking, but what I see is a renaming scheme. Is that it?

(Instead of a +3 Longsword you get a Superior Steel Longsword that just happens to give +3 on attacks, +3 on damage and +3d6 on criticals)

Does "min level" mean the PC must be at least that level before he can find the weapon, or something else?

(I would have thought "average level" would mesh better with the DMG treasure awarding rules: that is, if we say Superior Steel weapons have a level of 13, you could presumably start hoping to find one already at level 8. Because the DMG specifies that once each level, you're going to find a "level+5" item)

Or am I misunderstanding your Excel sheet here...?

Zapp

PS. I am considering to carry over the following houserule from our 3E-campaign into 4E:

Any "plain" magic item, one without any properties such as "Flaming" etc, is considered non-magical and does not register on Detect Magic. Instead, its properties are explained through superior quality: the Enchantment bonus(es) turns into a Quality bonus. The item otherwise works exactly as normal, and is priced exactly as normal.

As I see it, your approach is identical to this rule. Other than the fact you remove all other "really magical" magic items, of course. Yes?

Correct, there is a minimum level required to use the item. This helps keep the reward system in focus. Additionally, if a level 7 person is using a common steel sword, it will function as a wrought iron sword (so players don't get hosed by having a "better" weapon). It always scales downward to whatever level you are, so if for some reason the players decide to take down the big baddy bearing a masterwork mithril sword, it will likely last them throughout their entire career and "adjust" to whatever level they currently are. It also means that if the players pool together their coin, they can buy these items.

What the sheet is missing is the revised treasure by level and cost economy, along with why armor grants HP by type - which I've heavily houseruled since we don't use healing surges and use an iteration of a monetary system based around the grain commodity-based economy (I dumped the thousands upon thousands of coin into the economy). For more on this, check out the Grain Into Gold suppliment.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I worked a little on my "no magic item" house rules. (holidays are great )
I am too lazy to try reformatting the created tables on EN World, but here's the general idea.

I worked out a progression for the attack/damage/defense/AC bonuses.
At 2nd level and every 5 levels thereafter, gain +1 to attack and damage and +1d6 on critical hits. At 3rd level and every 5 levels thereafter, gain a +1 bonus to AC (with an extra +1 bonus for light and +2 bonus for heavy armor at 15th and 20th level. At 4th level and every 5 levels thereafter, gain a +1 bonus to all other Defenses (with an extra +1 at 16th and 26th level).
This should cover the standard bonuses implied by the magic item rules.

At 1st, 4th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 18th, 21th, 24th and 28th level, I grant additional benefits. I use Bagpuss idea of "bloodlines" to cover this (see more below)
To replace the Daily Item uses, I introduced "Heroic Effort" with the same frequencies and replenishment as Daily Item Uses. (Once per Tier and Milestone)
Expending an Heroic Effort is a standard action that grants you a +2 bonus to your next attack roll and allows to either spend a healing surge or to recover an encounter power you have already used.

Bloodlines:
Bloodlines grant often access to "Bloodline Powers". They can either be Encounter or Daily Bloodline Powers. In either case, you must spend one Heroic Effort to activate the ability. A Daily power can be used only once, a Encounter power can be used once per encounter. (And cannot be recharged during that Encounter)

For a simple approximation of what Bloodlines might be able to do I created a few "class-based" Bloodlines. The general rule for them was:
4th level: Gain one 3rd level or lower Encounter Attack or Utility Power as Bloodline Power.
8th level: Gain one 7th level or lower Encounter Attack or Utility Power as a Bloodline Power.
14th level: Replace 3rd level or lower Encounter or Utility Power from your Bloodline with 13th level Encounter or Utility Power.
18th level: Replace 7th level or lower Encounter or Utility Power from your Bloodline with 17th level Encounter or Utility Power.
24th level: Gain one 13th level or lower Daily or Utlity Power as Bloodline Power.
28th level: Gain one 17th level or lower Daily or Utility Power as Bloodline Power.

For each class, I also created class and multiclass features that are gained at 1st, 11th and 21st levels. Multiclass bloodline features are different because they try to replicate more of the original class features, while class bloodline features don't need to do that.
A sample - Fighter:
1st Level:
Gain a +2 bloodline bonus to At-Will and Basic Attacks with a Weapon of your Weapon Talent group and against enemies marked by you.
Roll d10 instead of d6 on criticals with a weapon of your weapon talent.
Gain a +2 bloodline bonus to one Fighter Class Skill.
11th level:
Spend a Healing Surge as a standard action to gain Damage Resistance 5 +1/2 level until the end of your next turn.
Gain a +4 bloodline bonus to one Fighter Class Skill.
21th level:
Spend a Healing Surge and a Heroic Effort as a Standard Action to regain hit points equal to your healing surge value and gain an equal amount of temporary hit points. The hit points lasts until expended or until after an extended rest.
Gain a +6 bloodline bonus to one Fighter Class SKill.

1st Level (Multiclass):
Minor Action Encounter Bloodline Power: Every successful attack marks the target until the end of your next turn.
Gain a +2 bloodline bonus to one Fighter Class Skill.
11th level (Multiclass):
Gain the Fighters Weapon Talent ability. When scoring a critical hit with a weapon for which you have the Weapon Talent ability, you automatically mark the target until the end of your next turn, and you roll d8 instead of d6 for extra damage.
Gain a +4 bloodline bonus to one Fighter Class Skill.
21th level (Multiclass):
Use one Fighter At-WIll Power as an Encounter Power.
Gain a +6 bloodline Bonus to one skill from the Fighter Class Skill.

Cleric Multiclass
1st level:
Daily Bloodline Power: Channel Divinity.
Gain a +2 bloodline bonus to a skill from the Cleric Class Skill list..
11th level:
Encounter Bloodline Power: Healing Word
Gain a +4 bloodline bonus to a skill from the Cleric Class Skill list.
21th level:
Encounter Bloodline Power: Pick one Cleric At-Will.
Gain a +6 bloodline bonus to a skill from the Cleric Class Skill list.

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Well, like so many things on my hard disk, this will probably take a long time to ever be used in practice, so maybe someone else finds a way to use these ideas.

 

[Walknot]

I worked a little on my "no magic item" house rules. (holidays are great )
I am too lazy to try reformatting the created tables on EN World, but here's the general idea.

I worked out a progression for the attack/damage/defense/AC bonuses.
At 2nd level and every 5 levels thereafter, gain +1 to attack and damage and +1d6 on critical hits. At 3rd level and every 5 levels thereafter, gain a +1 bonus to AC (with an extra +1 bonus for light and +2 bonus for heavy armor at 15th and 20th level. At 4th level and every 5 levels thereafter, gain a +1 bonus to all other Defenses (with an extra +1 at 16th and 26th level).
This should cover the standard bonuses implied by the magic item rules.

Sorry MR if I oversimplify the above, because the analysis is certainly thorough and seems very fine. But if I could extract a kernal; it seems that magic effects grant +1 every 5 levels. That is +1 to attack, damage, AC, and defenses.

Now compare with the "mundane" level progression effects. Things such as +1 to chosen stats, and the usual +1/2 per level and so on. Now to similarly oversimplify that, it would seem that mundane effects grant +1 every 2 levels. Again, +1 to attack, damage, AC, and defenses.

So in other words:
magic = +1 / 5 levels
mundane =+1 / 2 levels

Now, if you drop out the magic, then you will reduce your advancement rate by 30%.

That means, one option is to insert an additional 30% encounters, and spend an additional 30% play time, and your published campaign will work OK. Also note that instead of being at level 10 for a certain area of the dungeon, you will be at level 13. For example (30%) .

That also means (alternately) you may keep the standard number of encounters and so forth, but grant an extra 30% XP to accelerate the level progression similarly. After all, your PC's are battling those monsters with 30% of their arms (the magical 30%) tied behind their backs. And again, you'll be Lvl13 (mundane Lvl13 only) for a Lvl10 encounter that was intended for a magical setting.

 

[CapnZapp]

An excellent simplification, Walknot!

Assuming your math is right, a paragraph on this would have been great to have in the DMG itself...:

"You can remove magic from the world; compensate by increasing any level requirements of adventures by 30%."

Almost too simple to be true!

 

[CapnZapp]

Don't forget that 4E is already much easier to strip of magic (than 3E).

This is of course because 4E have done away with much (if not all) of the utility previously possessed by spellcasters.

The critical difference is that, in previous editions, you could assume the party had access to certain spells. (The worst case was that you needed to wait one day, until the Wizard had time to prepare it). You could make the adventure depend on the group having this or that spell.

Speak with Dead. Find the Path. The Scrying Teleport Express. You know the ones I'm talking about.

And boy did D&D adventures depend on these spells! That's the single most important reason so many D&D adventures suck if the DM didn't particulary care for Gygaxian disco effects or you wish to use them in a non-default setting (where "non-default" means "without a shitload of magic").

Now, spellcasters can only be assumed to have the attack spells. Which is great! Perhaps surprisingly, because these spells do separate fantastical magic users from mundane worlds. But in one sense, these spells have always been the easiest to adjucate - the spells least likely to break an adventure or campaign world.

You can't short-circuit a whodunnit or jump over the castle defenses with a Fireball after all.

Now all those bothersome spells have been remade as rituals (probably for that very reason!). Which brings about an important difference. No character can be assumed to have any one of these. This means adventures can't be written as sloppily as before, because now the designer must think of several solutions, not just the simplistic "cast the spell or go find someone who casts the spell".

Finally, the power to create adventures have been put where it belongs. In the hands of the DM.

And, I might add, taken out of the hands of the disciples of the Monte Cook school of adventure design...