Removing the link between class and ability

[Stalker0]

The only way to make this work would be to balance out ability scores...which they aren't right now.

Take dex vs strength for example. Dex gives you AC, reflex defense, initiative, and several good skills.

Strength gives a few skills and fort defense. If I have the ability to make my attacks depend on strength or dex, I am always going to choose dex.

 

[cattoy]

Essentially this is a way of making god stats godlier and dump stats dumpier.

YMMV of course, but you know what the powergamers are going to do with it.

 

[Starfox]

Another way that has been proposed here earlier is to ignore attribute modifiers on to-hit numbers and using a static, level-based modifier that it the same for everyine. Like an effective Stat of 18 +1/3 levels.

 

[ggroy]

If one wants to deviate even further away from 4E D&D, there's the case of eliminating all the player ability stats entirely and use the 4E skills system (in a slightly modified form) for both combat and non-combat purposes.

For example, a magic missile attack could be Arcana vs. Acrobatics instead of INT vs. Reflex.

Attacking with a sword could be Athletics vs. AC, where AC is something like 10 + level/2 + Athletics modifier + Armor (and maybe +Acrobatics modifier for a character wearing light or no armor).

In the OP's proposed scheme, an attack of attacking with a sword could be changed to Acrobatics vs. AC.

 

[Meek]

If one wants to deviate even further away from 4E D&D, there's the case of eliminating all the player ability stats entirely and use the 4E skills system (in a slightly modified form) for both combat and non-combat purposes.

For example, a magic missile attack could be Arcana vs. Acrobatics instead of INT vs. Reflex.

Attacking with a sword could be Athletics vs. AC, where AC is something like 10 + level/2 + Athletics modifier + Armor (and maybe +Acrobatics modifier for a character wearing light or no armor).

In the OP's proposed scheme, an attack of attacking with a sword could be changed to Acrobatics vs. AC.

Wow, that's an exciting idea! I never thought of it this way, but with things like passive skill, you can have "skill attacks" vs "skill defenses" the same way you have powers attacking right now.

 

[MrGrenadine]

I like the idea of charismatic fighters, and intelligent rogues, but I wouldn't like or use anything that changes or gimps the core abilities.

However, if every class power list included powers for each ability score, that would loosen things up quite a bit.

Ideally, you could create a fighter with Cha primary and Dex secondary, and have a good selection of powers which would key off those abilities, (and flavored appropriately as well).

Sounds like a good project for a 3PP.

 

[keterys]

It's amazing how a simple change of making your chance to hit no longer reliant on an ability score does to ease up character concepts, races, multiclassing, etc...

Totally suggest going that route instead. Because if having a Charisma-based fighter just means giving up a couple points of damage on every attack it's still a big deal, but one that can be accepted.

 

[ggroy]

It's amazing how a simple change of making your chance to hit no longer reliant on an ability score does to ease up character concepts, races, multiclassing, etc...

Totally suggest going that route instead. Because if having a Charisma-based fighter just means giving up a couple points of damage on every attack it's still a big deal, but one that can be accepted.

In the skill system scheme I mentioned in my previous post, a CHA based fighter's main attack method could be Intimidate vs. Insight or Will, instead of Athletics vs. AC for a generic fighter.

 

[keterys]

The 4e skill system is not really robust enough to support your suggestion, especially if you want to use the existing monsters. That said, there are certainly improvements that could be made to the skill challenge system to allow them to integrate better with the combat system.

 

[Markn]

The 4e skill system is not really robust enough to support your suggestion, especially if you want to use the existing monsters. That said, there are certainly improvements that could be made to the skill challenge system to allow them to integrate better with the combat system.

Agreed. While I like the idea of skills vs defenses (or a variant of it), the 4E skill system would knock the math way off making it too easy or too hard to hit.

On another note, I looked at some of my 2e handbooks (like the Fighters Handbooks). The kits therin had prereqs for having high Cha, Int, Dex, Wis, etc. Str was still a component but not necessarily the main one (although attacks still keyed off of str). I guess the point is, making another skill the key stat isn't a precedent here, the choice of making the key ability wide open to the player is.

Stalker0 and Mach1 have opened my eyes to the imbalance of the abilities. I could certainly see power gamers ALWAYS making a CON wizard for example. I can see some adjustments would need to be made to the game.

The question is, should D&D go in this direction in the future?