Removing the XP requirement from spells

[der_kluge]

I don't use XP in my game. Unfortunately, with 3rd edition, the designers have taken it upon themselves to make use of XP as an actual game mechanic for certain spells.

My players have never gotten high enough level to cast any of these, but I wanted to formulate some house rules in order to alleviate the problem once they do arise.

So, what follows is a list of all spells (in the PHB) that require XP, and my solution for how to fix them. Instead of XP, I use action points. IMC, APs don't automatically replenish at every level, nor do the PCs lose them when they gain a new level. They are a static resource like gold pieces. I use them to reward role-playing, problem-solving, defeating powerful opponents, etc.




Atonement (500 xp) - This spell requires a quest of the recipient, and once the cleric deems the recipient has atoned for his sins, he can cast the spell. The recipient must spend 3 action points to be atoned.

Awaken (250 xp) - This spell requires a number of APs equal to the 1/2 HD of the newly awakened creature.

Commune (100 xp) - Casting this spell requires 1 AP.

Gate (1,000 xp) - In addition to the gifts and/or services that the called creature requires, the spell requires 5 APs.

Limited Wish (300 xp) - I'm thinking about just dropping the spell. It's just bland.

Miracle (5,000 xp) - See Wish.

Permanency (500 - 4,500 xp) - I've removed this spell from my game.

Planar Ally (250 xp) - In addition to the gifts and/or services that the called creature requires, the spell requires 2 APs.

Planar Ally, Greater (500 xp) - In addition to the gifts and/or services that the called creature requires, the spell requires 3 APs.

Planar Ally, Lesser (100 xp) - In addition to the gifts and/or services that the called creature requires, the spell requires 1 AP.

Restoration, Greater (500 xp) - The recipient of this spell must spend 2 APs.

Simulacrum (1,000 xp) - The spell requires 5 APs.

Vision (100 xp) - The caster must succeed on a Fortitude save with the DC being equal to the DC of the Caster Level check required by the spell. Success means the caster is fatigued. Failure means the caster is exhausted.

Miracle / Wish (5,000 xp) - Casting wish summons forth one of the following creatures (1-20), who then attempt to fulfill the wish to the best of their ability. Often, interpreting the wish in order to further their own agendas. Leprechauns tend to carry out the wish to the letter of the wish, while Angels tend to be most forgiving in their interpretations (to the caster's advantage). The being will usually always request a quest, a gift or service in exchange for casting the wish. In addition to this, the spell requires 2 APs to cast.

1-20
Angel, Planetar (LG) (1-3)
Angel, Solar (LG) (4-5)
Efreeti (LE) (6-10)
Noble Djinni (CG) (11-15)
Leprechaun (N) (16-18)
Devil Lord (LE) (19)
Demon Lord (CE) (20)

 

[Piratecat]

I have some concerns about how you've handled the AP balancing in your system; some of those seem out of whack.

Like you, I don't use xp - and I use action points. My solution (which has worked really well) is to allow PCs to convert APs to xp on a 1AP = 1000 xp basis. In other words, a wish costs 5 AP. This is consistent, and has been a good tradeoff for the players.

In addition, I'm trying to promote teamwork, so I allow people to donate their APs to another player on a 3:1 basis (three APs from the fighter becomes 1000 xp that the wizard can make items out of.) I do this so that the spellcasters don't feel like they have to hoard all their APs for item creation.

 

[GreatLemur]

I don't use XP in my game. Unfortunately, with 3rd edition, the designers have taken it upon themselves to make use of XP as an actual game mechanic for certain spells.

My players have never gotten high enough level to cast any of these, but I wanted to formulate some house rules in order to alleviate the problem once they do arise.

So what about magic item creation? Has that not arisen, yet, either? Action points seem like a viable solution there, too. Personally, though, I really dig the "leven" rules from Green Ronin's Advanced Gamemaster's Guide: Certain magical beings, upon death, leave behind an arcane residue that can be used to replace the XP costs involved in magic item creation.

 

[evilbob]

You could also just use a gold cost for XP. 5g = 1 XP is how much NPC spellcasters charge. Makes things even simpler.

 

[Randolpho]

Why not do something the Eberron Artificer did and allow a "pool" of XP that every character has and can use for any purpose that might require XP (i..e magic item creation and/or powerful spellcasting). An example might be 10% of the experience points normally required to attain their most recent level (so a first-level character gets no XP while a second-level character gets 100 XP and a third-level character gets 200 XP, and so forth)

That way there's no direct "cost" associated with the spell or item, but there's still a tangible limit to them.

 

[der_kluge]

I use the Artificer's Handbook for magic item creation. I should - I wrote it.

I can limit magic item creation easily enough by restricting the kinds of components available for artifice. That is, IMC, you CAN NOT simply plunk down 25,000gp and make a horn of Valhalla. Finding the necessary ingredients is, IMHO, enough of a limiting factor that I don't need to also charge XP for the creation.

"Oh, you want to make a hat of disguise? Well, you can certainly afford it, but unfortunately, you're fresh out of doppleganger blood. Too bad."


So, I've got the whole magic item creation thing taken care of. I'm not worried about that. Now I'm dealing with spells.

 

[der_kluge]

Why not do something the Eberron Artificer did and allow a "pool" of XP that every character has and can use for any purpose that might require XP (i..e magic item creation and/or powerful spellcasting). An example might be 10% of the experience points normally required to attain their most recent level (so a first-level character gets no XP while a second-level character gets 100 XP and a third-level character gets 200 XP, and so forth)

That way there's no direct "cost" associated with the spell or item, but there's still a tangible limit to them.

I don't think you caught the part about their being absolutely no XP in my game.

 

[der_kluge]

I have some concerns about how you've handled the AP balancing in your system; some of those seem out of whack.

Like you, I don't use xp - and I use action points. My solution (which has worked really well) is to allow PCs to convert APs to xp on a 1AP = 1000 xp basis. In other words, a wish costs 5 AP. This is consistent, and has been a good tradeoff for the players.

In addition, I'm trying to promote teamwork, so I allow people to donate their APs to another player on a 3:1 basis (three APs from the fighter becomes 1000 xp that the wizard can make items out of.) I do this so that the spellcasters don't feel like they have to hoard all their APs for item creation.

But even APs as a mechanic - like XP, tend to have a "suck the life out of the spell" effect. Some of them, like Vision, I've sufficiently limited to not even require XP or an AP. The fatigue/exhaustion aspect of it limits it such that people aren't going to cast it all the time. What's dumb is that the spell description itself describes it "draining" the spellcaster, but then there's no mechanics to back that up. I added the mechanics.

Wish/miracle I sufficiently nerfed by introducing a summoned creature to perform the wish for the caster. That's why the AP cost is relatively low - because if you end up summoning a Demon Lord to create your wish, it's going to pervert it if at all possible, which is A) going to make the game much more interesting (one of my alternative goals anyway), and B) not nearly as powerful. I may end up just dropping the AP requirement on wish/miracle altogether. The fact that it might not give you what you want should be enough of a reason to make any wizard hesitate before casting it.


Otherwise, I'm looking for feedback.

 

[Sigurd]

Its fine to dump rules for judgment(s) so long as none of your players harbour a secret disagreement with your judgment. Rules are somewhat impartial and give a player the chance to have some expectations and guidelines. If your players don't need that and you don't want it , more power to you.

You can get rid of dice too.


Sigurd

 

[Piratecat]

Wish/miracle I sufficiently nerfed by introducing a summoned creature to perform the wish for the caster. That's why the AP cost is relatively low - because if you end up summoning a Demon Lord to create your wish, it's going to pervert it if at all possible, which is A) going to make the game much more interesting (one of my alternative goals anyway), and B) not nearly as powerful. I may end up just dropping the AP requirement on wish/miracle altogether. The fact that it might not give you what you want should be enough of a reason to make any wizard hesitate before casting it.

I saw. What level do you expect your game to get up to, Curtis? I'm worried that this might not be workable in a big fight. It is not uncommon for 3-5 wishes/miracles to be cast during one big fight in my game nowadays. Even if you say that you don't need an outsider for spoofed spells, that still may get unwieldy.

I think my actual point is that your proposed system seems to weight APs vs the original xp very differently than the rules as written -- and, to be honest, very differently than I would. That concerns me a bit.