Replacing Eladrin Fey Step?

[CapnZapp]

I understand your reasoning, PS, but isn't a cantrip a poor replacement for Fey Step?

As in much weaker?

 

[CapnZapp]

Regarding the proposal to hand out a Wizard at-will and Wand Mastery:

I believe the most sound way of doing this mechanically is to give out the wizard multi-classing feat (Arcane Initiate). Otherwise, the benefits wouldn't be compatible with the multi-classing path into Wizard.

And having Eladrin as the "arcane race" without them actually having an easier time multiclassing into Wizard doesn't make sense to me.

Now, I realize this doesn't help Eladrin Wizards. The easiest complementary rule would be "Eladrin Wizards get a bonus feat* instead of Arcane Initiate".
*) A bonus feat just like the one humans get.

Now then, is this Arcane Initiate/Bonus Feat too strong as a Fey Step replacement?



You could restrict its power somewhat by stipulating "Eladrin must choose Wands for the bonus Arcane Initiate feat" and "Eladrin Wizards must choose Skill Focus (Arcana) for their bonus feat".

 

[Drkfathr1]

Maybe just offer them a free multi-classing feat? That way the Eladrin Wizard can still pick up something else (and have a bit more variety in doing so)?

Lots of interesting ideas.

Makes me consider offering a "menu" of alternate powers for the races that gain racial encounter powers.

Maybe give Dragonborn and Tieflings an at-will power that is a natural claw/bite attack.

Or some kind of limited flight ability for the Dragonborn.

Ah the possibilities...

 

[SCMrks]

I am replacing Fey Step with Iron Mind to impress that Eladrin have strong minds and spirit. Iron Mind is the githzerai racial power. So my Eladrin can gain a +2 to all defenses until the end of their turn once per encounter.

 

[Rechan]

I'd rather shore up their Fey nature. An affect that suggests that as fey creatures, they have influence over minds.

Look at the Feyborn template. It has two powers (Besides the teleport):
Undeniable Beauty (Immediate Interrupt, when targeted in melee, AW): Vs. Will; attacker must target another creature or end the attack.
Lure of the Wild (Standard, Recharge) Range 10, vs. Will; pull 5 and daze (save ends).

Tossing out a status effect (especially dazed, especially a save-ends effect) is too powerful for a racial. However, it is very much a controller trick.

Now, Eladrin make great wizards. Which might be that Eladrin are natural controllers. Some races make them better strikers (Elven Accuracy, Infernal Wrath), or Controller (Dragonborn). Let's go with that, but have an overtly 'Fey' influence. The first is taking the template of the DB breath. The third stands out, but I think is fairly balanced.

Luring Glamour Standard, Encounter. Ranged 10; Int +2/Charisma +2/Wis +2 vs. Will; 1d6+Cha psychic damage, pull 3.
Deceptive Terrain Minor, Encounter (Keyword: Illusion). Close Burst 1; area is difficult terrain until the end of your next turn. You ignore the effect in terms of movement. (Alternatively, could do it as Burst 1 within 10, but then the power would need to be a Standard action).

 

[Plane Sailing]

I understand your reasoning, PS, but isn't a cantrip a poor replacement for Fey Step?

As in much weaker?

It is much weaker in combat, but works great for adventuring.

One Eladrin PC took 'light' and he was able to provide the party with light as and when he needed it (my campaign doesn't have sunrods, and sometimes they were running out of torches). Very stylish.

Another Eladrin PC took 'prestidigitation' and she was always clean, always fragrant, her food tasted wonderful and she did little tricks and sparkles which accentuated her fey nature.

An Eladrin Fighter took Mage Hand and uses it a bit like jedi knights - guesturing to close doors, press buttons, zip things to his hands.

So the stylish factor is winning out quite well here at the moment.

Cheers

 

[CapnZapp]

I'd rather shore up their Fey nature. An affect that suggests that as fey creatures, they have influence over minds.

...

Tossing out a status effect (especially dazed, especially a save-ends effect) is too powerful for a racial.

I think you're on the right track (and so is PlaneSailing, though I think giving out a Cantrip can be done in addition to rather than instead of a replacement ability with approximately the same overall utility as Fey Step)!

Now, you're saying the second of those Feyborn abilities would be too strong, and I guess I agree.

But what do you say about the first one? (I could be confused, but it seemed like you went off-track there, dropping the Feyborn discussion?) Perhaps you could drop the +2 bonus if there's concerns of overpoweredness (it is after all a potentially killing effect)? That is:

Luring Glamour Standard, Encounter.
Ranged 10; Best Mental Ability* vs. Will; 1d6+Cha psychic damage, pull 3. Increase the damage to 2d6+Cha at level 11 and 3d6+Cha at level 21.
*) Using the alternate rules term introduced by the FR Player's Guide on page 22 as a shorthand for "best of Int, Wis or Cha".

 

[CapnZapp]

(my campaign doesn't have sunrods)

Very interesting.

Could it be that you reached the same conclusion I did?

That sunrods are so cheap, and so powerful, that it's unlikely even a level 1 party would ever have to fight in anything less than bright light, all the time?

My own solution (as of yet untested) is to state that the entire sunrod turns to a pile of brightly burning "sand" when lit. That is, it works as normal, but it becomes immovable.

This hopefully makes relying solely on sunrods expensive and inconvenient, which I hope will bring back torches and lanterns into play. (Or, as you say, wizardly tricks!)

(I know this is off-topic. Perhaps if this triggers a long discussion it could be forked off as its own thread, but I was wary of doing so for a simple yes/no question)

 

[Plane Sailing]

Very interesting.

Could it be that you reached the same conclusion I did?

That sunrods are so cheap, and so powerful, that it's unlikely even a level 1 party would ever have to fight in anything less than bright light, all the time?

Exactly.

Plus, it assumes a higher level of "magic everywhere" which I don't want in my campaign (c.f. my decision to remove Fey Step from Eladrin)

BTW, I forgot, there is something else I give all Eladrin

a) Portal Sense: The can sense the presence of portals to the feywild as if they were spotting secret doors.

b) Feywild Portal Ritual: All Eladrin know how to use a simple ritual which opens up a portal between the material plane and the Feywild. Lasts for 1r for every 10 of their Arcane check. Cost etc. as a 1st level ritual. If you are underground in a dungeon there is a high likelihood that your portal will just open onto rock though.

Cheers

 

[Rechan]

But what do you say about the first one? (I could be confused, but it seemed like you went off-track there, dropping the Feyborn discussion?)

I thought that the 'At-Will' nature of it was too much for a racial ability.

It would be on par, comparable with say, the Halfling's second chance ability.

Perhaps you could drop the +2 bonus if there's concerns of overpoweredness (it is after all a potentially killing effect)?

Huh? How is a pull a killing affect? It doesn't cause OAs. And unless you start your turn in a hazardous area, I dont' think you'd take damage from passing through a hazardous area.

The Dragonborn's breath weapon is a 'potentially killing affect', since it kills minions flat. It survives with the +2 to the attack.