Replacing Half-Races with Feats

[Technik4]

Nail, imo -4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Cha is broke as can be. Maybe not by the DMG, but by any common sense of min/maxing this is abusable at ECL + 0. The clearest way to chince it would be a spell-caster, wizard or sorc. Next up is archer-rogue. -4 Str is a penalty dont get me wrong, but as long as players can put a 14 and pull a 10, theyre far and away in the clear for bonuses.

Point buy doesnt know the difference between str and cha. All point buy sees are total mods, in this case a -4 and a +6, this race comes out on top every time with point buy.

Just some criticism, although bear in mind I dont know the rest of the racial stats.

Technik

 

[Kamard]

Kraedin, would you let me yoink these feats and put them up on my campaign website?

 

[Nifft]

Kraedin, I like these Feats.

However, I agree that a permanent Endure Elements is too strong for a Feat. Instead, I'd give a +4 Racial bonus to saving throws vs. effects with that elemental descriptor.

-- Nifft

 

[Ace32]

As written.. a human could take two of these feats..
Third-Elf Third-Orc Third-Human !?

 

[Kraedin]

Some changes to the elemental-touched feats.
I kept the acid resistance for Blood of Earth, because I feel that acid resistance is the least powerful type. I cannot recall ever taking acid damage in a D&D session.

Blood of Flame
One of your ancestors was a being of fire.
Prerequisites: Not an elemental of the fire subtype.
Benefits: You gain a +2 racial bonus to Dexterity, a -2 racial penalty to Constitution, and ray of fire 3/day as a spell-like-ability with a caster level of one (treat like ray of frost, except that it deals fire damage).
Special: You can only take this feat at first level.

Blood of Water
One of your ancestors was a being of water.
Prerequisites: Not an elemental of the water subtype.
Benefits: You gain a +2 racial bonus to Strength, a -2 racial penalty to Intelligence and Charisma, and create water at will as a spell-like ability with a caster level of one.
Special: You can only take this feat at first level.

Blood of Earth
One of your ancestors was a being of earth.
Prerequisites: Not an elemental of the earth subtype.
Benefits: You gain a +2 racial bonus to Strength and Constitution, a -2 racial penalty to Dexterity and Intelligence, and acid resistance 5.
Special: You can only take this feat at first level.

Blood of Air
One of your ancestors was a being of air.
Prerequisites: Not an elemental of the air subtype.
Benefits: You gain a +2 racial bonus to Dexterity, a -2 racial penalty to Strength, and obscuring mist 3/day as a spell-like ability with a caster level of one.
Special: You can only take this feat at first level.

Kraedin, would you let me yoink these feats and put them up on my campaign website?

Go for it.

As written.. a human could take two of these feats..
Third-Elf Third-Orc Third-Human !?

The child of a half-elf and half-orc, perhaps? I honestly don't see that as a problem.

 

[Nail]

Off-Topic:

Nail, imo -4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Cha is broke as can be.

Because of the "uneven" mods? The DMG doesn't think so. Says somethin' about "Str being better than Int or Chr", etc. I agree that the mods I've given would lead to spell casters being of this race. I also agree that "point buy" PC generation doesn't distinguish between Str and Cha. ...but I disagree that it's broken...I think.

What if the stats were: -2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Chr, i.e. reverse of half-orc? Would anyone have a problem with this?

Central question: should a PC race (ECL +0) ever have a +/-4 in something?

On-Topic:
FWIW, I don't like the idea of giving these feats spell-like powers. Destroys the flavor, and casts the feat as strictly a power-up. IOW, why not a Lesser Burning Hands or a Minor Fireball for the flame-touched? IMHO, a +2 vs fire saves/-2 vs cold saves would work better, and give a better flavor.

 

[Kraedin]

I'm not so sure that a cantrip 3/day casts the feats as a power up.

 

[Technik4]

Nail: In this case, the DMG is quite wrong. I would most definitely agree that a -2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Cha is broken. While it is the inverse of the half-orc's stats, the nature of spell-casters is such that they are willing to pay a -2 to any phys ability for a +4 to a mental statistic. Especially in point buy.

A spellcaster doesnt care about str. A spellcaster only remotely cares about con and dex, as they are defensive stats. Overall giving any large benefits to mental statistics in exchange for a penalty to str, the offensive statistic is stupid. Its easy to see that you will cultivate few fighter-types from said race, why be a fighter if you are weak but wise and charismatic? Yet every race has fighters.

I believe that the phb races were designed without bonuses to mental attrnbutes for a very good reason. Look at gnomes, arguably the most likely to get a bonus to intelligence as they did in 2ed. Yet they got con. I think the races which get bonuses to mental attributes in forgotten realms did so because it is a "high-magic" campaign setting, and they are dubiously balanced.

Finally, I dont believe that +4/-4 is balanced at ECL +0. If it is to a mental attribute, well youve already seen my dislike for such bonuses. If it is to a physical attribute, we must merely look to the phb races to see that it wont be balanced. Str is obviously given the most weight, and I cant imagine giving +4 str. As for dex or con, well it seems well covered in both medium and small races with Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, and Gnomes.

Hence, your race which gives a -4 to str and a +2 to every mental statistic seems quite broken. Give me one example of a wizard who would want to be an elf, if he can be a weaker yet more intelligent race. Ditto Sorceror. Those classes dont give a darn about str. Or how about psion?

The even greater problem may be that this race becomes unattractive to nearly every other class. Any class that needs to hit and do damage with a melee attack is crippled by a -4 str. This leaves the class open to rogues who depend on sneak attack and archers who can try and negate the -4.

It just seems unbalanced. In a high magic campaign I think it would be viable, but only with some spell-like ability and at ECL +1.

Everything above is just my take.

As far as the feats to create half-bloods like Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, Tieflings, Aasimars, Genasi, etc. I think these are interesting ideas, but Im not sure if a feat which gives stat changes is balanced.

Technik

 

[Nail]

Nail: In this case, the DMG is quite wrong. I would most definitely agree that a -2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Cha is broken.
....(excellent arguement snipped)....

Alright.....rather that argue point for point, let me show you how I came up with such a broken race. (If yer interested, of course.)

If you look in the MM, under monster progression, you see a little chart that shows you what happens to ability scores if you change size. For example, a monster going from size small to size large gains +4 Str.

My reasoning, therefore, is that if we started with a base human (10's as far as the eye can see....) and shrunk him, he'd average a 6 Str. Reverse the "size progression" chart. In other words, if a race is small and about human shaped, it should have a 6 Str unless it is "exceptionally strong for it's size". Apparently, both the gnome and halfling are "exceptionally strong".

So, if we take away 4 points of strength, we'd better give something back. The DMG argues that Str is "better", yada, yada, yada. ...And you say the DMG is wrong. So, what to do? Say: "Just kidding about that size progression chart, it doesn't really work in reverse." ???

Perhaps restrict my stat changes to purely physical abilities? That gets a bit boring........restricting yourself to only 3 of the six?

As for the "reversed half-orc": That's not nearly as broken as you make it out to be. Wizards don't really benefit from Cha, and Sorcerers don't get much from high Int. I'm imagining that your campaign style has more to do with this outlook than the mechanics and balance.........that's not meant as a criticism.

...But I might be convinced on the +/- 4 thing.....it just doesn't jive with that size chart....which I suppose is no great loss. I just like a system that has all the pieces fitting together.

 

[Nastermil]

What I like about 3e is that it lets you break the rules if you want, and encourages the creation of house rules. I guess what is most important is whether your players abuse the house rules or not. Has this new home-brewed race caused turmoil in your game? Do the other races quiver in fear when a member of this race stumbles into the room? Has one of your players pulled you aside and said, "Man, Frank's +2 Int +2 Wis +2 Cha -4 Str character is really unfair, and if you don't ban his race from the game I quit!"? If it works for the DM and it works for the players, why not use it? If you were to publish a product for the masses using this race, then I can see where there might be a problem, because you don't know who might get their grubby, manipulative hands on it and abuse it, causing their DM to curse you bitterly for creating such an accursedly broken and overly powerful new race. I guess.

Me? I usually let my peeps do what they want with their characters (within reason), because I know I can kill any one of them in an instant if they abuse their divinely granted powers. I'd let a player run a character that was -4 Str +2 Int +2 Wis +2 Cha. Not that any of them would, but I'd allow it.