jaerdaph
#UkraineStrong
The amount of restraint I am showing right now to not comment on this line further is staggering...
Replacing Jenga in Dread
- Thread starter Nagol
- Start date
The amount of restraint I am showing right now to not comment on this line further is staggering...
I'm building Giant Jenga for a friend's birthday present.
made of 2x4's cut to 10.5" lengths, sanded, stained, and waxed.
The giant jenga rules allow for using 2 hands, including being able to hold the tower with one hand, while pulling a block.
I haven't yet played Giant Jenga yet (i will this weekend at his party when i deliver the present). But the concept seems easier to me.
Partly because I am a Jenga Master. The game is easier when you are confident and careful.
It might be worth having your friend try regular jenga, just to see how hard it is. a lot of people think Jenga is harder than it is (hence my title, I know exactly how hard it isn't).
If nothing else, the game will get harder for him earlier, and it will scare the other players (perhaps the GM should make a point of that, thus if he dies, that's not good).
made of 2x4's cut to 10.5" lengths, sanded, stained, and waxed.
The giant jenga rules allow for using 2 hands, including being able to hold the tower with one hand, while pulling a block.
I haven't yet played Giant Jenga yet (i will this weekend at his party when i deliver the present). But the concept seems easier to me.
Partly because I am a Jenga Master. The game is easier when you are confident and careful.
It might be worth having your friend try regular jenga, just to see how hard it is. a lot of people think Jenga is harder than it is (hence my title, I know exactly how hard it isn't).
If nothing else, the game will get harder for him earlier, and it will scare the other players (perhaps the GM should make a point of that, thus if he dies, that's not good).
Living Legend
First Post
I have never played Dread, it was on the top of my list of games to try at Gencon this year but I never found the time. So I'm just guessing here, but might it work having a second tower for our tremor prone friend, only it's just a third of the normal height, and therefore way more stable. He would be the only one that pulls from this second tower.
Keeper of Secrets
First Post
The bead option seems like it would be close. But 100 beads probably does not replicate the tower as much as say 75 or 60, maybe.
I don't think this solves the problem of the friend with the muscular problem but the Dread book does suggest each person stacking D6s as their own personal tower. Maybe you could try that and see how many dice your friend can reasonably stack.
I don't think this solves the problem of the friend with the muscular problem but the Dread book does suggest each person stacking D6s as their own personal tower. Maybe you could try that and see how many dice your friend can reasonably stack.
The amount of restraint I am showing right now to not comment on this line further is staggering...
I'm not entirely sure what jaer's objection is, but it does hit a final point.
There are some activities that people with disabilities just can't participate in.
If one of the alternative suggestions doesn't cut it, this person may have to sit out. this is the technical reason that disabilities are called disabilities and why its no fun to have them.
At some point if an alternative adjustment doesn't help them participate without compromising the game's design integrity, it just wasn't meant to be.
Perhaps this person should be the GM. No pulls needed.
Cerebral Paladin
First Post
I strongly disagree with what I understand to be Janx's approach. Partly because of my professional background, I tend to think about disabilities in terms of trying to find reasonable accommodations. Sure, sometimes there isn't a reasonable accommodation available. But disabilities cause lots of problems for people with them as a matter of course. In our play, we should be striving to reduce those problems, not being blase about creating more ones.
One of the things I've always liked about gaming is that while it can be lacking in certain forms of diversity, it often attracts a large number of differently abled people. In an RPG, a player who can't walk, or is blind, or has a missing limb can still be, do, and achieve just as much as anyone else. I think that's a real virtue in rpgs.
There are exceptions. Boffer LARPs, for example, necessarily privilege physical ability. But I like to keep those exceptions rare.
So with Dread, my approach would be "can I find a way to make this work, despite some players having physical issues that make it hard for them to play?" And I would be hesitant to just say, "tough, maybe you should sit it out." To be honest, before I got to that point I would say, "maybe we should use a different system"--and I love Dread. I think that the "designated puller" approach works. It's not perfect, but it works, and it's what I've used in the past and will likely use again. But if I concluded that that didn't work and that the randomized approaches don't work, I would tend towards using a different system rather than ostracizing people (except maybe in the context of a con or something where there are plenty of other options for them).
One of the things I've always liked about gaming is that while it can be lacking in certain forms of diversity, it often attracts a large number of differently abled people. In an RPG, a player who can't walk, or is blind, or has a missing limb can still be, do, and achieve just as much as anyone else. I think that's a real virtue in rpgs.
There are exceptions. Boffer LARPs, for example, necessarily privilege physical ability. But I like to keep those exceptions rare.
So with Dread, my approach would be "can I find a way to make this work, despite some players having physical issues that make it hard for them to play?" And I would be hesitant to just say, "tough, maybe you should sit it out." To be honest, before I got to that point I would say, "maybe we should use a different system"--and I love Dread. I think that the "designated puller" approach works. It's not perfect, but it works, and it's what I've used in the past and will likely use again. But if I concluded that that didn't work and that the randomized approaches don't work, I would tend towards using a different system rather than ostracizing people (except maybe in the context of a con or something where there are plenty of other options for them).
Asmor
First Post
He was remarking on the double entendre in the snippet he quoted.
I think you've misintepreted my statement, given that i wrote it with your well thought out alternatives and reasons why Jenga resolution is still better.
I said that IF the alternatives are not a sufficient solution, than the person is going to have to accept that this is an activity their disability blocks them from participating.
I am not advocating 'screw the cripples'. its just that some alternatives were put out AND were shot down. If they truly are not viable, than the person is not going to be able to play Dread. It's simple logic.
A man with no legs cannot run in a race. You can say "oh yeah, what about that guy in the Olympics!" And I will point out, that man solved his disability by getting replacement legs and thus he was no longer a man without legs. Logic still dictates that you can not run with out legs and therefore cannot run in races.
Wheelchair basketball is an adaptation of the game for wheelchair bound players. It can't really be played as a mixed sport (foot and wheeled players). Because ultimately, the adaptations to make it handicap accessible do not make it compatible, safe or fair.
I am all for fixing disabilities and removing arbitrary barriers for handicapped people. While disabled people should never let those disabilities discourage them from what they want to do, there are still some things that the nature of disability prevents.
So if Dread can't be adapted so he can play, then he can't play Dread.
As for whether the group should play Dread, that's ultimately up to the group. While it would be nice of them to find something everybody can play, it is also wrong for the 1 person to expect everybody to accomodate him every time at the sacrice of the majority's preferences.
Some ideas for replacing the Jenga mechanic:
Math option (for nerds):
Make a large stack of 3x5 cards, and write increasingly difficult equations on them, like you were making flash cards. Start with simple arithmetic and work your way to more difficult stuff (what is considered difficult would depend on the group). The most difficult cards should be math that is still possible to do mentally, but would take a player a bit of time to think about. There should be a few cards that are very difficult (but may have a simple trick to solve them is you can recognize it). If desired, put one impossible question in stack.
Shuffle the deck. Each time you would normally have to pull a Jenga block, draw them a flash card. They then have x seconds to give the correct answer. Failure is the same as if the tower toppled. Don't replace cards, and allow the fear of getting a really difficult one to rise as time goes on. For multiple pulls, you can either draw cards in rapid succession, or cut down on the length of time allowed to answer.
Language option:
Same as above, but use a foreign language instead of math. Go from simple words and phrases to complex conjugations and sentences, and make people translate on the fly.
Ball 'n Basket option (for players who have shaky hands but still have otherwise good motor function):
Place a basket in the middle of the floor. Have a bag with a large number of balls. Ideally they would have slight variation to the hardness and size, but it's not critical. Each time a person would normally have to draw a Jenga block, they instead have to toss a ball into the basket from a short distance away. If you miss the basket, or if the ball falls out, you fail as if the tower had fallen. The difficulty is that the basket is never emptied, so the odds of a ball staying in goes from very easy to very difficult as the basket gets filled.
Ball 'n Bucket option
Fill a 5 gallon bucket with ping pong balls. But mark x ping pong balls with a black sharpie. When they would normally have to draw a Jenga block, a player has x seconds to reach one hand into the bucket and withdraw a marked ping pong ball. Failure to find one, or knocking any balls out of the bucket, results in a failure. If you want to be sneaky, you can vary the marks that you put on the balls; some will be almost entirely black, some will have circles, and some with have only a couple of dots.
Metronome option (for the musically inclined)
Every time you would have to pull a Jenga block, roll a six sided die. Keep a cumulative total of the number. After rolling, the GM plays a click and starts timing. The player must mentally (silently) count off the cumulative number, in seconds, and signal back when the time is up. If the player is off by more than x seconds, it is treated as if the tower toppled, and the cumulative number is reset. This task will get harder and harder as the players get more excited, and the length of time gets longer.
This option can be even more fun if you have a digital metronome (like Dr. Beat) and can require various tempos instead of just seconds. Play 4 beats at a random speed, and require the player to count off the cumulative number of beats.
Math option (for nerds):
Make a large stack of 3x5 cards, and write increasingly difficult equations on them, like you were making flash cards. Start with simple arithmetic and work your way to more difficult stuff (what is considered difficult would depend on the group). The most difficult cards should be math that is still possible to do mentally, but would take a player a bit of time to think about. There should be a few cards that are very difficult (but may have a simple trick to solve them is you can recognize it). If desired, put one impossible question in stack.
Shuffle the deck. Each time you would normally have to pull a Jenga block, draw them a flash card. They then have x seconds to give the correct answer. Failure is the same as if the tower toppled. Don't replace cards, and allow the fear of getting a really difficult one to rise as time goes on. For multiple pulls, you can either draw cards in rapid succession, or cut down on the length of time allowed to answer.
Language option:
Same as above, but use a foreign language instead of math. Go from simple words and phrases to complex conjugations and sentences, and make people translate on the fly.
Ball 'n Basket option (for players who have shaky hands but still have otherwise good motor function):
Place a basket in the middle of the floor. Have a bag with a large number of balls. Ideally they would have slight variation to the hardness and size, but it's not critical. Each time a person would normally have to draw a Jenga block, they instead have to toss a ball into the basket from a short distance away. If you miss the basket, or if the ball falls out, you fail as if the tower had fallen. The difficulty is that the basket is never emptied, so the odds of a ball staying in goes from very easy to very difficult as the basket gets filled.
Ball 'n Bucket option
Fill a 5 gallon bucket with ping pong balls. But mark x ping pong balls with a black sharpie. When they would normally have to draw a Jenga block, a player has x seconds to reach one hand into the bucket and withdraw a marked ping pong ball. Failure to find one, or knocking any balls out of the bucket, results in a failure. If you want to be sneaky, you can vary the marks that you put on the balls; some will be almost entirely black, some will have circles, and some with have only a couple of dots.
Metronome option (for the musically inclined)
Every time you would have to pull a Jenga block, roll a six sided die. Keep a cumulative total of the number. After rolling, the GM plays a click and starts timing. The player must mentally (silently) count off the cumulative number, in seconds, and signal back when the time is up. If the player is off by more than x seconds, it is treated as if the tower toppled, and the cumulative number is reset. This task will get harder and harder as the players get more excited, and the length of time gets longer.
This option can be even more fun if you have a digital metronome (like Dr. Beat) and can require various tempos instead of just seconds. Play 4 beats at a random speed, and require the player to count off the cumulative number of beats.
jaerdaph
#UkraineStrong
That was just a joke as Asmor pointed out.
I'd like to see as many of those barriers eradicated whenever they can be. That's why I suggested trying one of the online Jenga games as an alternative - it might be easier for a person with disabilities to manipulate, and the other folks at the table could share the same experience by using the program as well.
FYI: There is also a Jenga app for sale in the Android Market for Droid devices. I'm sure the App Store probably has one too for their devices.
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