Replacing the druid's animal companion ability with the Earth Domain: balanced?

[Pielorinho]

I'm playing an earth-centered druid, and I just got the idea of replacing the animal companion ability with the earth domain of a cleric.

This would mean, instead of gaining an animal companion or two (or three or more), I'd be able to rebuke/command earth creatures and turn/destroy air creatures, and I'd gain one specific extra spell/day. I'd de facto gain a weak earth-subtype companion that would, to some degree, replace my animal companion.

On the downside, the companion(s) gained through the command ability wouldn't be nearly so good. I'm 9th level, so I could gain 2 medium earth elementals or 3 thoqquas, for example. Although these would be nice, they're not trainable, they have fewer hitpoints than an advanced bear or tiger, they do less damage in combat, they don't have the wonderful improved grab ability that's taken down so many spellcasters, and they're not subject to the animal-growth spell.

On the upside, earth elementals can move through stone, they've got those nice elemental immunities, and they have a decent AC compared to an animal. I don't think these things come close to compensating for the downsides, but they help.

On the upside, I could turn or destroy air creatures. I have an 8 Cha, so this isn't a huge bonus, but it's not bad either.

On the upside, I'd gain that extra spell/day, including gaining Wall of Stone a level early and gaining Stoneskin, which I otherwise wouldn't get. This is a major bonus. (Well, for some spell-levels it is. Frankly, I doubt I'll use magic stone ever, but wall of stone might come in handy on a daily basis).

What do y'all think? Is this a fair trade-off? Do I gain way too much? Do I lose way too much?

If it's unbalanced, is there a way to modify it to make it balanced? Would it be balanced to change "animal friendship" to "earth friendship", castable only on earth subtype creatures?

Daniel

 

[Caliban]

I would suggest taking a look at the 3.5 druid, and make your adjustments from there.

Certain class abilities of the druid are changing significantly in 3.5, and they might affect how you want to handle this.

 

[Pielorinho]

I would suggest taking a look at the 3.5 druid, and make your adjustments from there.

Certain class abilities of the druid are changing significantly in 3.5, and they might affect how you want to handle this.

You tease!

IF we make this change, though, it'd make the most sense to handle it in this week's session: that's the point where the curse/magical effect that makes me more earthlike will take effect. Do you have a sense of whether this would be balanced under 3.0? We'll reevaluate everything once we get our paws on 3.5, anyway.

Daniel

 

[Cloudgatherer]

I would suggest taking a look at the 3.5 druid, and make your adjustments from there.

I think just as soon as you provide details regarding the 3r druid, then we can start working....

Otherwise, bad Caliban! Bad!

Just because some people around here have the new rules already (PC is guilty of this too) doesn't mean you should tease us with them (not your intention, I hope, but it does happen).

Anyway, actually on topic... If I were DM, I'd probably let you do it. Doesn't seem overly unbalanced and I don't like animal companions or familiars that much to boot. As long as you role play your character well, had a good background, and wasn't going for a new munchkin record, no problems here. Then again, I'm pretty easy .

Later.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Just because some people around here have the new rules already (PC is guilty of this too) doesn't mean you should tease us with them (not your intention, I hope, but it does happen).

Given how many he's managed to slip into assorted threads over the last couple of weeks, I'm sure it's exactly his intention.



-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Pielorinho - why not simply run a cleric of earth (and something else?).

I don't think replacing what is less than one domain ability (ie - half of the granted powers of the animal domain, which also includes knowledge(nature) as a class skill) is worth an entire domain, spells and all.

The only reason I can think of that you want to do this from the druid side is so you can wildshape into burrowing creatures (right?). Maybe there's a third level spell which would better suit your needs?

 

[Pielorinho]

Pielorinho - why not simply run a cleric of earth (and something else?).

I don't think replacing what is less than one domain ability (ie - half of the granted powers of the animal domain, which also includes knowledge(nature) as a class skill) is worth an entire domain, spells and all.

Well, I've been playing the druid since first level: this is a potential change to an existing character, not a new character.

However, your second point is very well-taken. Assuming that domain powers are balanced against one another, clearly the change I'm talking about isn't balanced.

Domain powers aren't balanced against one another, of course: domains are balanced against other domains. Still, I think you're right.

Daniel

 

[Murrdox]

Well, since the Druid's animal companion ability is really just a casting or several castings of "Animal Friendship", I don't see how removing one spell from your Druid's spell list (I would assume you are removing the spell, otherwise you'd just be able to get an animal companion anyways) is balanced with adding in an entire domain.

This is definitely up to you and your DM... and personally, I think you should be more worried about whether or not this power will imbalance you in regards to the campaign power level. Thus, DM's call.

Personally... I would probably handle this by letting you play some sort of bizare specialist Druid... same as a Wizard who specializes in a spell school. You get the Earth Domain, but you lose the Enchantment school, which is what "Animal Friendship" is.

 

[nharwell]

I think it's a very reasonable exchange and would easily allow a player in my game to make that swap.

 

[Pielorinho]

Well, since the Druid's animal companion ability is really just a casting or several castings of "Animal Friendship", I don't see how removing one spell from your Druid's spell list (I would assume you are removing the spell, otherwise you'd just be able to get an animal companion anyways) is balanced with adding in an entire domain.

Well, that's technically true, but it's a little misleading. "Animal Friendship" is without a doubt the most powerful first-level spell out there, and should rightly be considered more of a druid's core class abilities than as just another first-level spell. The rumor mill over 3.5 suggests that it's going to be an actual class ability in the new edition; currently, it should be treated as such. So I'm talking about removing a core class ability, not so much about removing a single first-level spell.

If I were suggesting substituting "Shillelagh" for the Plant domain, your point would be better-taken .

Personally... I would probably handle this by letting you play some sort of bizare specialist Druid... same as a Wizard who specializes in a spell school. You get the Earth Domain, but you lose the Enchantment school, which is what "Animal Friendship" is.

This is an interesting idea -- trading not only the animal friendship ability, but indeed all enchantment spells, for the earth domain. Hmm. On the one hand, animal friendship is far and away the best enchantment spell that druids gain, and druids get very few other enchantment spells. On the other hand, this might provide enough of a weakness to offset the benefits of the gained domain.

Daniel