D&D 5E Reputation System 5e

[miggyG777]

I'd be more tempted by things than a scale. Scales are great if you want to spend a bunch of time tracking where you are on it, or a computer.

Things are great if you want to only track stuff with high impact.

Keep track of positive and negative reputation tokens as actual things. Invoke those tokens to impose disadvantage or a complication or a problem. Consume them if it is a big invoke compared to the thing; otherwise, sleep the thing when you invoke it.

This reminds me of FATE. And I like the idea of complications but I am unsure if I would let my players invoke these (which is the main reason to use tokens, right?).

I tend towards no. That way, instead of adding a new token mechanic you could just use the seven reputation levels as a way to introduce complications and therefore stay closer to RAW, which is one of my design goals.

Example:

The parties reputation is Loved (+5) in the local village. The next time the party enters the villagers have prepared a feast for them.

The parties reputation is Hated (-5) in the local village. While they slept in the inn, some goons have demolished their horse cart.

 

[dave2008]

Okay, but in the case of SWSE, you'd get +5 from being trained in Persuasion, and the other +3 would be had by any level 6 character out of the box, even with a 10 charisma--or lower level if you have any charisma bonus at all. That's hardly a task that only "the best of the best" would even think of attempting.

A level 6 character in 5E with a 10 charisma and training in Persuasion, who's not a Bard or Rogue, would only get a +3 bonus to the roll, meaning they'd need to roll a 19 to equal a 12 with the same penalty.

That is an ability score thing, IMO. Not sure why you would be trained in a persuasion with such a low Charisma score. Now, I might give a situational bonus if the character had some leverage. But again, this seems generally accurate to me. That same character could easily have a +6 to +8 by 6th level with a reasonable charisma.

 

[jayoungr]

That is an ability score thing, IMO. Not sure why you would be trained in a persuasion with such a low Charisma score.

Argh, I feel like we're talking past each other here, but I'm not sure how to put us on the same page. Maybe a recap will help? Here's how our last few posts have read, to me:

You: "It should be really difficult to talk someone down from wanting to kill you."
Me: "I think it should be possible for almost anyone to try. Here's a sample scenario, with numbers."
You: "You can get similar numbers in 5E if you build a charisma-heavy character."
Me: "But in SWSE, you can get those numbers even without being charisma-heavy."
You: "Why would you even try this if your character wasn't built for charisma? It would be really easy if you had a good charisma bonus."

I feel like your last statement is just a restatement of your first statement, and we're circling around the real question, which is "Should talking someone out of attacking you on sight be the province of highly skilled characters only?"*

Personally, I still don't think so. You're not bringing them around to loving you with one die roll--you're just convincing them not to pull the trigger at that exact moment. I think that is not startlingly unrealistic, and furthermore, I think it gives players more fun options in a given situation.

*If the numbers do not change between systems, the answer is yes for 5E and no for SWSE.

 

[dave2008]

Argh, I feel like we're talking past each other here, but I'm not sure how to put us on the same page. Maybe a recap will help? Here's how our last few posts have read, to me:

You: "It should be really difficult to talk someone down from wanting to kill you."
Me: "I think it should be possible for almost anyone to try. Here's a sample scenario, with numbers."
You: "You can get similar numbers in 5E if you build a charisma-heavy character."
Me: "But in SWSE, you can get those numbers even without being charisma-heavy."
You: "Why would you even try this if your character wasn't built for charisma? It would be really easy if you had a good charisma bonus."

I feel like your last statement is just a restatement of your first statement, and we're circling around the real question, which is "Should talking someone out of attacking you on sight be the province of highly skilled characters only?"*

Personally, I still don't think so. You're not bringing them around to loving you with one die roll--you're just convincing them not to pull the trigger at that exact moment. I think that is not startlingly unrealistic, and furthermore, I think it gives players more fun options in a given situation.

*If the numbers do not change between systems, the answer is yes for 5E and no for SWSE.

I think we understand each other, we just have different expectations of what you can do with persuasion in a given situation. That's OK. That is why the concept with the larger modifiers works for me, but not for you. The concept is valid either way, just a matter of identifying the modifiers that work for you.

 

[dave2008]

Personally, I still don't think so. You're not bringing them around to loving you with one die roll--you're just convincing them not to pull the trigger at that exact moment. I think that is not startlingly unrealistic, and furthermore, I think it gives players more fun options in a given situation.

Another thought, from my perspective what your describing seems to be the "hated" modifier (-5 with my suggestion) and not the "hostile." In which case, the 10 charisma character with proficiency would need a 14 to talk them down. Which again seems reasonable.

EDIT: The hostile modifier is more extreme than hated in this system. With this system I would only apply the hostile modifier very rarely.

 

[jayoungr]

The concept is valid either way, just a matter of identifying the modifiers that work for you.

Okay. I'll just drop in one last bit of data to help the OP judge the situation: a level 6 character in SWSE who is built for charisma could very easily have a +16 modifier (+3 charisma bonus, +3 level bonus, +5 persuasion training, +5 skill focus). And 12 is a pretty typical number for the will defense of an Imperial soldier, so that character basically can't fail to persuade.

In 5E, a level 6 rogue who is built on similar lines would have a +9 modifier (+3 charisma, +3 proficiency, +3 expertise). This is the best modifier you can get at level 6 in 5E. Still have to roll a 3 to persuade.

A level 6 bard could have a +7 modifier (+3 charisma, +3 proficiency, +1 Jack of all Trades).

Any other level 6 character with a 16 charisma can only manage a +6 bonus to persuasion. That's a difference of * 10 * !!

Another thought, from my perspective what your describing seems to be the "hated" modifier (-5 with my suggestion) and not the "hostile."

The SWSE scale is this, charting the target attittude toward the PC:

Hostile: Creature takes risks to harm you, usually attacking on sight. -10 modifier to Persuasion to move attitude to Unfriendly.
Unfriendly: Creature wishes you ill but won't go out of its way to harm you. -5 modifier to Persuasion to move attitude to Neutral.
Neutral: Creature sees you as neither a threat nor an ally. -2 modifier to Persuasion to move attitude to Friendly.
Friendly: Creature wishes you well but won't take risks to help you. 0 modifier to Persuasion to move attitude to Helpful.
Helpful: Creature will put itself in danger to help you.

 

[dave2008]

The SWSE scale is this, charting the target attittude toward the PC:

Hostile: Creature takes risks to harm you, usually attacking on sight. -10 modifier to Persuasion to move attitude to Unfriendly.
Unfriendly: Creature wishes you ill but won't go out of its way to harm you. -5 modifier to Persuasion to move attitude to Neutral.
Neutral: Creature sees you as neither a threat nor an ally. -2 modifier to Persuasion to move attitude to Friendly.
Friendly: Creature wishes you well but won't take risks to help you. 0 modifier to Persuasion to move attitude to Helpful.
Helpful: Creature will put itself in danger to help you.

OK, but I was using the OP's scale (with my suggestion):

• -10 Hostile
• -5 Hated
• -2 Disliked
• 0 Neutral
• 2 Liked
• 5 Loved
• 10 Exalted

Maybe that is our source of contention, we are using two different measuring sticks!