Request for Feat Trees

[Edena_of_Neith]

Edena_of_Neith here.
I'm requesting your help.

I am not read up on 3.5 (although I'm working on it.)
I am interested in what Feat Trees you would use, if you developed a hypothetical character from 1st through 10th level, assuming you did not use Prestige Classes.

For example, imagine a typical cleric. You know, the kind that heals, turns undead, and was generally considered otherwise useless in 2E?
What Feat Tree would that cleric take in 3.5E? Or, what Feat Trees could that cleric take?

You have a warrior in 2E, and all he was good for was being at the front of the party, and battling it out (and hoping the monsters died before he did, and hoping the cleric had lots of healing magic.)
Now, that fighter is a 3.5E fighter. What kind of Feat Trees could he take, levelling from 1st through 10th level, if he did not choose a Prestige Class?

There are 2,000 official feats, and thousands more that are unofficial. I'm lost in all these Feats (and I hear some players who know far more about 3.5 than I do are also lost in them.)
I was just wondering what creativity and effort could produce? It's not about Munchkinizing, but about specializing along a specific path. But I, at least, do not know what the paths are.

What feats would a mage take, if he was started and went from 1st through 10th level with no Prestige Class?

I'm looking for inspiration here. Could any of you help me?

Yours Sincerely
Edena_of_Neith

 

[amethal]

I would say that vast majority of feat "trees" are combat related. Most non-combat feats seem to have either no pre-requisites, or only one pre-requisite (more like a feat shrub )

Feat choice is an enormous topic.

To use a cleric as an example, the cleric can take plenty of feats to improve his turn undead ability, but they aren't really a tree as generally none of them depend on having any of the others. Apologies if I get some of the feat names wrong as I've never had a character take any of them.

For example, Extra Turning gives additional turn undead attempts per day, and Improved Turning allows you to turn undead as if you were a level higher, but each one only requries you to have the turn undead ability.

Clerics and especially paladins, (who are not so good at turning although they tend to compensate somewhat by having a higher charisma) can also take feats to use their turn undead ability for something else.

This can be useful because the effectiveness of turn undead is dependent on the hit dice of the undead you are trying to affect. Particularly at high levels, many undead the party fights will have hit dice significantly higher than the cleric's level and turning them is unlikely to succeed. Thus having another use for turn undead can be handy.

For example, Divine Vigour increases your speed and gives you temporary hit points, at the cost of one of your turn undead attempts. Extra Turning is not a prerequisite for this, but would be a good additional feat to have if you wanted to use Divine Vigour or similar feats more often.

Clerics can also use the Divine Metamagic feat to use up turn attempts to "pay" for the level adjustments of other metamagic feats. Thus, if you had the Extend Spell feat you'd normally have to use up a slot one level higher in order to douible the spell's duration. If you also had Divine Metamagic, you could instead cast the spell at its normal level by using up one use of turn undead.

Another useful cleric feat is Augment Healing, which gives a +2 to the amount of healing from cure spells.

I think if I was designing a "basic" cleric for a newcomer to 3rd edition I'd recommend a human cleric of Pelor who is focused on healing and turning undead. Domains would be sun and healing.

First level feats would be Augment Healing (Complete Divine) and Extra Turning (PH)
At 3rd level I'd get Improved Turning (PH)
At 6th level I'd get Divine Vigour (CD)
At 9th level I'd get Extend Spell (PH)
At 12th level I'd get Divine Metamagic (CD)

This is far from the best cleric build, but it isn't very complicated and should prove a useful addition to any party.

 

[Particle_Man]

Well for fighter, the "Basic" human model might go like this:

1. Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword)
1. Weapon Focus (bastard sword)
2. Power Attack
3. Cleave
4. Weapon Specialization (bastard sword)
6. Improved Toughness (CW)
8. Greater Weapon Focus (bastard sword)
9. Improved Critical (bastard sword)
10. Great Cleave

This model requires str. 13 (which a fighter is likely to want to have as a high stat), and is designed for hitting hard with his main weapon and for "clearing through the trash" a bit.

If you want maneuvers, you could go for one of the tactical feats in CW, most of which have prerequisites. Elusive Target, Combat Brute and Shock Trooper would be examples.

Another modification of the above example is to go for a dwarf instead of human, since they in effect have exotic weapon proficiency (war axe), which can replace (bastard sword) in all the above cases.

As for cleric, hmmmm...

1. Disciple of the Sun (CD)
1. Extra Turning
3. Weapon Focus (deity's favored weapon, assuming you have proficiency (otherwise, get proficiency in that weapon))
6. Empower Turning (CD)
9. Reach Spell (CD)

 

[FEADIN]

For the fighter you can use a longsword, you do not have to spend a feat on Exotic proficiency at 1st, take power attack and at 2nd take improved sunder.
For the wizard...
1 scribe scroll (free feat)
1 Combat casting or skill focus: concentration
1 Toughness if you have low hp or Spell penetration
3 Brew potion or extend spell or Focus in one school
5 Craft wand
6 Greater Spell penetration
9 another craft or school focus or metamagic
10 metamagic feat
There is no real "Feat tree" for wizards and sorcerers.

 

[amethal]

There is no real "Feat tree" for wizards and sorcerers.

If you use Complete Arcane, the draconic feats count as a feat tree for sorcerers.

I particularly like the Draconic Legacy feat, as it grants 3 extra spells known - very handy for sorcerers. Unfortunately it requires Draconic Heritage and 3 other draconic feats. It ties up a lot of feats, and mechanically the price is probably too high, but it makes for a cool character.

e.g. (using human sorcerer)
Level 1 - draconic heritage, draconic resistance (or whatever its called)
Level 3 - draconic breath (or whatever its called)
Level 6 - the draconic feat that gives you a +1 natural armour bonus (whatever its called)
Level 9 - draconic legacy

I can make the feat names even more vague, if you'd prefer

 

[Thanee]

I don't think this can really be answered in such a general fashion.

There are so many options, it really comes down to specific character choices, when determining what feats to take.

There is, however, a much smaller list of feats, which are generally good to take for certain classes. For example Power Attack is very good, if your character is a fighter-type with a two-handed weapon.

Bye
Thanee

 

[SBMC]

Edena_of_Neith here.
I'm requesting your help.

I am not read up on 3.5 (although I'm working on it.)
I am interested in what Feat Trees you would use, if you developed a hypothetical character from 1st through 10th level, assuming you did not use Prestige Classes.

For example, imagine a typical cleric. You know, the kind that heals, turns undead, and was generally considered otherwise useless in 2E?
What Feat Tree would that cleric take in 3.5E? Or, what Feat Trees could that cleric take?

You have a warrior in 2E, and all he was good for was being at the front of the party, and battling it out (and hoping the monsters died before he did, and hoping the cleric had lots of healing magic.)
Now, that fighter is a 3.5E fighter. What kind of Feat Trees could he take, levelling from 1st through 10th level, if he did not choose a Prestige Class?

There are 2,000 official feats, and thousands more that are unofficial. I'm lost in all these Feats (and I hear some players who know far more about 3.5 than I do are also lost in them.)
I was just wondering what creativity and effort could produce? It's not about Munchkinizing, but about specializing along a specific path. But I, at least, do not know what the paths are.

What feats would a mage take, if he was started and went from 1st through 10th level with no Prestige Class?

I'm looking for inspiration here. Could any of you help me?

Yours Sincerely
Edena_of_Neith

I have some advice for you on the Fighter side of things – where most of my experience lies. The feat choices are really conceptual.

There are really two types of general Fighter builds – the “Dexterity” Fighter and the “Strength” Fighter. Essentially what it means is where you put your high score(s); dexterity or strength.

The Dexterity Fighter:
The Dexterity Fighter has two options: Ranged or Two Weapon Fighting: Both require high dexterity scores.

Under Two Weapon Fighting there is also a “sub option” he can take using Weapon Finesse – but it costs a feat and has limitations of its own (and benefits for the high dex).

The Dexterity Fighter also has an issue with armor; as in maximum dexterity bonuses.

Many of the really good feats for both ranged and TWF require the higher BAB; such as Greater TWF at +11 (which you can’t get yet in the scenario you outlined) and Greater Weapon Specialization at +12 (but fighter 12 only)

Note – to keep it simple most of the feats I am looking at are from the PHB.

Ranged Fighter (assuming Human):
Iron Will (my personal mainstay after a bad experience in the nine hells!)
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Far Shot
Rapid Shot
Many Shot
Improved Rapid Shot (CW)
Weapon Focus
Greater Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialization
Improved Critical

Two Weapon Fighter:
Iron Will (my personal mainstay after a bad experience in the nine hells!)
Two Weapon Fighting Fighter:
Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Two Weapon Defense
Improved Two Weapon Defense
Weapon Focus
Greater Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialization
Improved Critical or Weapon Finesse.
Mage Slayer (CA)

The Strength Fighter:
Now there are really three options here; and the choices are more equipment oriented than feat oriented.

Damage machine: Take a two handed weapon and bash away; causing more damage then the badguy. Normally however one needs heavier armor to do this in the long run. Barbarians get away with it since when they rage they get the Strength bonuses (cause even more damage) and the Con bonuses.

The Wall of selfishness: Heavy armor, tower shield, have Combat expertise in the feat mix, fights defensively a lot. This guy is more concerned about not taking damage than causing damage. Really the opponents hurt themselves more when they hit this guy themselves than if they get hit - Like punching a wall! A favorite target of enemy casters.

Tank (many call the: Sword & Board” Fighter): Higher end medium or heavier armor, light or large shield used, at least a +1 Dex Bonus. Money goes into enhancing shield and armor primarily (but ya got to have at least a +1 sword!). This guy has a high AC, does a good amount of damage with his high strength score and Weapon Specialization – he gets the best of all worlds:

#1 He does not burn a ton of feats on his fighting style (as in TWF)
#2 He can still move around with ease and keep up with the party.
#3 He can still dish out damage quite well (say 1d8+6; 4 for un-enhanced Strength and +2 for Weapon specialization)
#4 He has the higher AC due to the shield (vs. Two handed weapon)

In conclusion: Therefore he can dish it out and not get hit very often himself

Here is one of my favorite feat mixes:
Iron Will (my personal mainstay after a bad experience in the nine hells!)
Weapon Focus
Greater Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialization
Improved Critical
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Improved Bull Rush
Pushback (MiniHB)
Quick Draw (this one makes a real difference! Believe me!)
Combat Reflexes (if you have at least a +1 dex mod) or Mage Slayer (CA)

There are tons of ways to go with this – these are just my recommendations off the top of my head and I use similar ones frequently.

If you spend some time on horseback in battle then take Mounted Combat at least. But if the vast majority of your time is underground; you can take that later on.

Just to toss it in there – for the Strength Fighter I would say to always endeavor to get that armor enhanced and get that Belt of Giant Strength!

Just my two cents…

 

[Deset Gled]

If you use Complete Arcane, the draconic feats count as a feat tree for sorcerers.

e.g. (using human sorcerer)
Level 1 - draconic heritage, draconic resistance (or whatever its called)
Level 3 - draconic breath (or whatever its called)
Level 6 - the draconic feat that gives you a +1 natural armour bonus (whatever its called)
Level 9 - draconic legacy

I love the Draconic Feat tree. I would probably go with the feat that lets you fly after using a spell before the one that grants +1 NA, but that's just me.

The Draconic Breath feat is my favorite because it opens up all of the Meta-Breath feats from the Draconomicon. Maximize Breath and Quicken Breath are my favorites. It also opens up the spells in the Draconomicon that have a breath component (stunning on a failed save is awesome).

I eagerly await the day I get to actually use the acid breathing sorcerer I built up awhile back.

 

[kenobi65]

Damage machine: Take a two handed weapon and bash away; causing more damage then the badguy. Normally however one needs heavier armor to do this in the long run. Barbarians get away with it since when they rage they get the Strength bonuses (cause even more damage) and the Con bonuses.

IME, if you're purely wanting to max out melee damage, this is the way to go. The change to Power Attack in 3.5 makes it terribly favor using a two-handed weapon. (This assumes a human fighter):

- 1st: Weapon Focus: Greatsword
- 1st (bonus human feat): Power Attack
- 1st (bonus fighter feat): Cleave

- 2nd (bonus figther feat): Improved Sunder (good for breaking those bad guy weapons; also good for annoying your comrades when you break the treasure)

- 3rd: This is a hard slot, because the next two good fighting feats require a BAB of +4. Iron Will or Lightning Reflexes might be good (since they're weak fighter saves, and this PC likely doesn't have great Wis or Dex), as might Improved Toughness (though I don't have the book with that feat in front of me, so I'm not 100% positive you'd qualify for it)

- 4th (bonus fighter feat): Weapon Specialization: Greatsword

- 6th: See the note on the 3rd-level feat.
- 6th (bonus fighter feat): Great Cleave

- 8th (bonus fighter feat): Improved Critical: Greatsword

- 9th: See the note on the 3rd-level feat, or Greater Weapon Focus: Greatsword

- 10th (bonus fighter feat): Greater Weapon Focus: Greatsword (if you didn't take it at 9th)

Put your highest stat in Strength, and keep it maxed out (via stat bumps and magic items). Next best stat should be Con. Get the best heavy armor you can find.

 

[SBMC]

IME, if you're purely wanting to max out melee damage, this is the way to go. The change to Power Attack in 3.5 makes it terribly favor using a two-handed weapon. (This assumes a human fighter):

- 1st: Weapon Focus: Greatsword
- 1st (bonus human feat): Power Attack
- 1st (bonus fighter feat): Cleave

- 2nd (bonus figther feat): Improved Sunder (good for breaking those bad guy weapons; also good for annoying your comrades when you break the treasure)

- 3rd: This is a hard slot, because the next two good fighting feats require a BAB of +4. Iron Will or Lightning Reflexes might be good (since they're weak fighter saves, and this PC likely doesn't have great Wis or Dex), as might Improved Toughness (though I don't have the book with that feat in front of me, so I'm not 100% positive you'd qualify for it)

- 4th (bonus fighter feat): Weapon Specialization: Greatsword

- 6th: See the note on the 3rd-level feat.
- 6th (bonus fighter feat): Great Cleave

- 8th (bonus fighter feat): Improved Critical: Greatsword

- 9th: See the note on the 3rd-level feat, or Greater Weapon Focus: Greatsword

- 10th (bonus fighter feat): Greater Weapon Focus: Greatsword (if you didn't take it at 9th)

Put your highest stat in Strength, and keep it maxed out (via stat bumps and magic items). Next best stat should be Con. Get the best heavy armor you can find.

Using a two handed weapon is best with Power Attack however in my experience the balance of AC vs. melee works best in the long run.

Power attack can also be used with great effect with a one handed weapon as well.