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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MuhVerisimilitude" data-source="post: 9176606" data-attributes="member: 7042567">There are people here who argue that the martial classes must remain strictly "realistic" even at absurd levels of play. While I strongly disagree with their arguments, I agree with one particular thing: The future "potential" of a class colours the play experience.I believe this is why the tier argument does not work. That is: A martial class cannot transcend from being "mundane" to "mythic", because future mythic potential colours the mundane experience, unless the mythic element is entirely optional.Clarification: Someone proposes a martial that transcends from being fairly realistic at levels 1-10 and then gains blatantly unrealistic abilities at higher levels. This is a good solution to the balance problem, but it is an example of what I mean with the "tier argument" above.An ability you will get, even at a level you will never reach, affects the current play experience. You know that at some point you WILL have a particular ability. An ability in potentia. This is why it always feels amazing to play a caster, because you know that only GM fiat can prevent you from learning a particular spell at a particular level. Want Simulacrum? Pick it. Want Wish? Pick it. Yeah sure you might not actually survive that far in the game, but that's not really important. You know that you absolutely will be amazing at high levels.It is also why it can feel bad to play a martial: You know that at level 20 you will have pretty much nothing that you didn't already have. Sure some numbers might be higher, you might have a few more attacks, but there is nothing "concrete" about these improvements. A wizard with Wall of Force knows what he can do with his magic. You might have a cool magic item, but emphasis on might. You never know what magic items you will get. Shrödinger's special ability.So we have two different groups of people:1: One group does not care that martials don't get anything cool, because if they got something cool it would make their play experience worse2: Another group feels like the fact that martials don't get anything cool makes their gameplay experience worse, because there is nothing to look forward to as you level up.The way the system currently works is that casters are allowed to have impactful abilities while martials are not, and that even the addition of abilities at higher levels is not OK (according to some people), because it colours the player experience of the people who want fighters to remain "mundane".I believe that for this reason the only reasonable solution to the balance problem is to have an entirely separate martial class that is essentially an "unchained" fighter, one that is properly balanced against the the stronger classes.</blockquote>

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