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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9177032" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>It is not just a perception thing. Actively creating tedium in order to push people away from particular options is a game design choice. It's a <em>poor</em> game design choice, but it is a choice. When game designers talk about "optimizing the fun out of a game," they're referring to people willingly choosing to do tedious, un-fun things because those strategies are dominant. Other game design spaces cottoned onto this pretty quickly, and learned that making the barrier to power be tedium is simply encouraging players to do tedious things.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Name them. Getting to attack four times per Attack isn't special. Name <em>one</em> thing a Fighter can do that isn't "something literally everyone else can do, but faster." I'll wait. The 5e Fighter's features are Second Wind (occasional self-healing, something everyone does with Hit Dice), Action Surge (same actions as everyone else, just faster), Extra Attack (same attacks everyone else makes, just faster...and most other Fighter-like classes get equally good equivalents anyway!), and Indomitable (same saving throws as everyone else, just <em>faster</em>).</p><p></p><p>It's literally, from top to bottom, "the same as everyone else, but faster." That's it. Fighters <em>don't</em> do anything Wizards can't. They just do things a little bit faster.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Which is no reason for me to stop advocacy. Quite the contrary. Advocacy is the only way that it's even <em>potentially</em> possible that things might, someday, change.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I certainly hope you're being facetious. Small-time publication doesn't get you diddly-squat in the TTRPG space. Never has. D&D is the behemoth it is because it was early. Same with a wide variety of other things. Paizo only became what it did because WotC divested so much of itself and specifically equipped Paizo to pick up the pieces.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If it doesn't matter to them whether there's an imbalance, why not at least <em>reduce</em> it, even if we can't truly remove it? You're already saying they don't notice, so reducing it shouldn't be noticed either.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, what you're saying is, it's the <em>player's</em> fault for choosing a garbage class? Sounds like victim-blaming to me. "How dare you be interested in an archetype that is extremely popular. You should have changed all your preferences to match what the game actually rewards!"</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9177032, member: 6790260"] It is not just a perception thing. Actively creating tedium in order to push people away from particular options is a game design choice. It's a [I]poor[/I] game design choice, but it is a choice. When game designers talk about "optimizing the fun out of a game," they're referring to people willingly choosing to do tedious, un-fun things because those strategies are dominant. Other game design spaces cottoned onto this pretty quickly, and learned that making the barrier to power be tedium is simply encouraging players to do tedious things. Name them. Getting to attack four times per Attack isn't special. Name [I]one[/I] thing a Fighter can do that isn't "something literally everyone else can do, but faster." I'll wait. The 5e Fighter's features are Second Wind (occasional self-healing, something everyone does with Hit Dice), Action Surge (same actions as everyone else, just faster), Extra Attack (same attacks everyone else makes, just faster...and most other Fighter-like classes get equally good equivalents anyway!), and Indomitable (same saving throws as everyone else, just [I]faster[/I]). It's literally, from top to bottom, "the same as everyone else, but faster." That's it. Fighters [I]don't[/I] do anything Wizards can't. They just do things a little bit faster. Which is no reason for me to stop advocacy. Quite the contrary. Advocacy is the only way that it's even [I]potentially[/I] possible that things might, someday, change. I certainly hope you're being facetious. Small-time publication doesn't get you diddly-squat in the TTRPG space. Never has. D&D is the behemoth it is because it was early. Same with a wide variety of other things. Paizo only became what it did because WotC divested so much of itself and specifically equipped Paizo to pick up the pieces. If it doesn't matter to them whether there's an imbalance, why not at least [I]reduce[/I] it, even if we can't truly remove it? You're already saying they don't notice, so reducing it shouldn't be noticed either. So, what you're saying is, it's the [I]player's[/I] fault for choosing a garbage class? Sounds like victim-blaming to me. "How dare you be interested in an archetype that is extremely popular. You should have changed all your preferences to match what the game actually rewards!" [/QUOTE]
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