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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 3696003" data-attributes="member: 2011">This is an interesting generic statement, but what do you have to back this up?Why can the challenges not be totally unrelated to psionics and not still be challenging?Excuse me? Magic Missile cannot be stopped by a Shield spell or a Ring of Spell Turning or a Globe of Invulnerability or a Brooch of Shielding or Spell Resistance or Invisibility or being in the Dark or a Grapple or even an Attack of Opportunity? There are many ways to stop Magic Missile.I noticed that you picked some of the best no save spells for various levels like Magic Missile for the Sorcerer, but then picked Energy Ray for the Kineticist? Sure Energy Ray has no save, but Energy Missile can selectively target up to 5 opponents and doesn't miss with a failed roll to hit (i.e. it typically does damage). Sorcerers typically have to find a metamagic feat to selectively attack multiple targets with an energy spell.That's an average damage range of 67.5 to 675 points of damage for Energy Missile depending on situation. Assuming half of the opponents save and the Kineticist can only target 2.5 targets per attempt, that's still 253 points of damage per day or the Psion taking out 6 5th level Fighters with Cons of 14 per day. 253 vs. the 134 of the Sorcerer (assuming a 35% chance to miss with the Scorching Rays and the Ray of Frost against most opponents that you kind of ignored with your example). This can easily be a lot more damage due to targeting a lot more opponents, especially once melee starts.I understand that you were discussing single target attacks, but that is not the definition of Nova. A real Nova seriously damages or wipes out multiple opponents, not just a single one.On top of that, your total damage is misleading in another way, even for single targets.Scorching Ray in your example is 5 opponents for 14 points each. A 5th level combatant opponent typically has 30+ hit points. With Scorching Ray (or Magic Missile), it would typically take 3 spells to take out this opponent if they all hit. 42 points of damage in 3 rounds assuming none of them miss.With Energy Ray, it would take 2 powers to take out this opponent. 45 points of damage in 2 rounds. Only 2 chances to miss, not 3.Killing an opponent in 2 rounds instead of in 3 rounds is a fairly significant advantage that your "total average damage" does not take into account.With a typical 65% chance to hit, such an opponent would often require 4 or 5 Scorching Rays (and 4 or 5 rounds) to be successful whereas Energy Ray will typically do it in 3 rounds.For arcane spell casters, a typical opponent might have 18 hit points at 5th level. Magic Missile or Scorching Ray typically requires 2 spells to take him out, Energy Ray usually requires 1 power to take him out. 1 round versus 2 rounds (assuming they all hit). The arcane opponent does not have a chance to react to that damage if he is unconscious or dead in a single round.That is what Nova is about, not average damage. Wiping one or more opponents out quickly, not slowly.Your example totally ignores these basic real game facts about psionic Nova.This is quite frankly false. Psions have other advantages (like manifesting any power in a grapple with a concentration check as opposed to spells without somatic components) and specific race Psions like Elans have some significant advantages.Plus, if the Psion Novas and helps the party take out the NPC opposition in 3 rounds, he used up a lot of his own resources, but saved a lot of party resources at the same time (compared to a 5 or 6 round combat). The concept of "must conserve for later" is not always necessarily valid. A smartly run Psion knows when to Nova and would also have backup items to augment his abililties when he is low on PP, just like a smartly run Wizard often crafts scrolls for utility spells.</blockquote>

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