Response to Psionics Nerf (Move from inappropriate placement in House Rules thread)

[DreamChaser]

The reason (in my humble opinion) that issue #1 (psions going nova using all their power points in one shot) ever comes up is because DMs allow psionics for their players and then forget to add them into the rest of the game.

There are remarkably few attacks that can strip a wizard or sorcerer of his or her spells (spell thief being the main one that comes to mind).

There are at least half a dozen powers, items, and creatures (at least) that can directly attack a psionic character's power point reserve plus others that inhibit the use of psionics (like Catepsi).

If you allow a player to play a psion and then never send him or her up against a mindfeeder weapon or the power leech power or a gray glutton then it is honestly your own darn fault that they end up seeming more powerful. You (as the DM) have created a milieu where it is clear to the player that he / she need never worry about the number of power points she / he has left at the end of the day. You may as well give wizards infinite wands of all their utility spells.

Psionics are not broken. I truly believe that those who argue that they are broken are 9 times out of 10 implementing psionics in part rather than in whole. That is not the fault of the rules but the fault of the user.

DC

 

[WarlockLord]

True, but if you plan a campaign where mindfeeders are everywhere, to counter novaness, wizards shine.

A high level wizard can go into nova just as easily. Celerity + Mark of the Dauntless, and shapechanging into a choker come to mind (and they can be used together to throw out 3 spells a round, highest level available).

More encounters a day will challenge a psion. If he knows there's a troll behind the orcs, he won't spend all his PP on the orcs.

But you're right, psi power isn't broken. Now, DMM Cleric-zilla...

 

[AllisterH]

True, but if you plan a campaign where mindfeeders are everywhere, to counter novaness, wizards shine.

A high level wizard can go into nova just as easily. Celerity + Mark of the Dauntless, and shapechanging into a choker come to mind (and they can be used together to throw out 3 spells a round, highest level available).

More encounters a day will challenge a psion. If he knows there's a troll behind the orcs, he won't spend all his PP on the orcs.

But you're right, psi power isn't broken. Now, DMM Cleric-zilla...

That's a very poor argument. Your wizard is only doing this at very high levels (basically, when the game is done). THe previous poster was talking about ALL levels where it is not possible for a wizard to NOVA.

 

[Arkhandus]

1st-level human cleric with Divine Metamagic perhaps? I dunno, as I don't have Complete Divine to see what the prereqs are and suchlike.....

1st-level sun elf evoker with maximum Intelligence, Spell Focus (Evocation), and 3-4 Burning Hands per day? Could run out of castings in the first or second encounter (1d4 damage isn't gonna kill a goblin most likely, so two or three castings would likely be necessary unless the party's warriors already shot each gobbo once for a few points of damage). Sooner if they aren't a specialist. Just as a 1st-level human wilder with Overchannel and Talented could spend all their power points in the first or second encounter on Hammers or Mind Thrusts or whatever.

 

[green slime]

Mwhahahahaha!

The arrival of a Mindfeeder weapon in the hands of an Antoganist is going to prevent a Psion going nova?!?

How? If anything, these weapons/powers/creatures encourage the Psion to go nova: The next encounter might suck away all his power points anyway, so why hold back now? Better to aid your allies now while you can, and let them deal with what you can't, surely?

 

[robberbaron]

I have noticed the psions' ability to unload spectacularly but haven't decided that it's too much. The players sometimes moan about another being more effective than them but they generally shine some other time.

One thing I keep meaning to do, however, is to add anti-psi stuff, specifically monsters.
With 1 psion and 2 psi-warriors in the party I think I will have to address them sooner rather than later. Just to let them know who's boss. Muwahaha.

 

[Bacris]

Here's the thing - in games that have very low encounters, especially if said encounters are equal to or lower than the average party level - and in games where going nova has no negative affect, the psion can be a balance concern.

Nova tactics are only good if your DM lets you get away with it - hence why none of my psions ever nova. I did that once (actually by accident...) - let me tell you, that next encounter was severely brutal, when all I could do was fire bolts.

Since the DM knows that it's going to be low-encounter per day, modifying the rules to account for that makes sense. Me personally, I'd just tell the player not to nova "or else" and leave it at that, but it's his call as DM

 

[DreamChaser]

Mwhahahahaha!

The arrival of a Mindfeeder weapon in the hands of an Antoganist is going to prevent a Psion going nova?!?

How? If anything, these weapons/powers/creatures encourage the Psion to go nova: The next encounter might suck away all his power points anyway, so why hold back now? Better to aid your allies now while you can, and let them deal with what you can't, surely?

Certainly...if every day you knew that there would at some point be a PP draining enemy (and if those enemies could easily reduce you to zero PP), this would be the exact result.

That is not what I was positing. Within the rules as they stand, a PP drain is unlikely to reduce a psion to nothing unless it is significantly above CR. Instead, it acts to make PP a clearly valuable resource...one for which there is a very real drawback to squandering.

If I have 30 PP (5th level psion with Int 15) and I want to last the day to keep up with the evoker who can cast 5 0, 5 1st, 4 2nd, and 3 3rd (17 total) spells each day, I need to be careful. I can in theory wipe myself out in 6 powers (none of which will actually do more die of damage than the wizards spells mind you). By the same token, I can blow the wizard out of the water by using 30 level 1 powers with no augment. Somewhere in between is a compromise (which coincidentally enough is 18 powers).

Now, lets say I am well aware of the danger of a though eater (CR 2). In my second encounter of the day, my wizard buddy and I meet one. Easy breezy for us, in theory but each touch of the creature drops my potential by 20%. Clearly I want to avoid him and blow him out of the water, but unless I'm prepared to call it quits for the day, I can't very well afford to blow my PP; nor would I have been better off blowing them in encounter one. I just need to be smart enough to avoid him, and have enough PP that when all is said and done, I can still use powers (even if it is fewer of them) for the rest of the day.

DC

 

[Nifft]

IMHO the threat of future encounters does more to encourage rationing than any 'nerf', and doesn't penalize any particular class unfairly.

These potential encounters don't need to be attacks on the PCs -- they may need to conserve at least one teleport because they're worried about an attack on their friends / family / home base, for example.

Cheers, -- N

 

[green slime]

IMHO the threat of future encounters does more to encourage rationing than any 'nerf', and doesn't penalize any particular class unfairly.

These potential encounters don't need to be attacks on the PCs -- they may need to conserve at least one teleport because they're worried about an attack on their friends / family / home base, for example.

Cheers, -- N

On this I agree.

But DC's claim that the psion's ability to go nova is the fault of a DM whom doesn't introduce mindfeeders/power leech/gray glugons is a huge insult to many DM's, akin to calling them unintelligent, fat, and lazy.