D&D 5E Resurrection and Revivify

[Yaarel]

I like immortality. So, I am less of a fan of permanent death.

Currently, there are four resurrection spells: Revivify, Raise Dead, Resurrection, and True Resurrection.

I love Revivify. Essentially, it is something like the magical version of resuscitation. And level 3 is appropriate. As long as the body is moreorless intact, the spell succeeds.

However in comparison, the other three resurrections spells are less useful, even punishing.

Really there only needs to be two resurrection spells.
• Revivify (when body is reasonably whole)
• Resurrection (when the body or soul no longer exists, or resurrection would otherwise be impossible).

Revivify can probably absorb Raise Dead. In other words, at level 3, if the body is only dead within minutes, then the ally comes back to life with 1 hit point, and without penalties. But if the body has began decomposing, then it should return with levels of Exhaustion, that take upto several days to recover from. If the body would have been destroyed, such as missing a head, then Revivify automatically fails.

Resurrection should be able to create a NEW BODY, completely healthy, of any age, to bring anyone back to life regardless of how the ally died or how long ago. The Resurrection spell should even be able to reconstitute the ‘echos’ of a destroyed soul. Unlike Revivify, Resurrection should be able to handle the impossible situations, including precasting a self-resurrection. Therefore such a version of Resurrection probably deserves a slot 9, comparable to Wish. Because this Resurrection creates a new body, it should also be able to restore an ally that is trapped in suspended animation (compare Clone where the soul migrates to a new body). The old body vanishes as any residue gets incorporated into the new body. Likewise, such Resurrection can destroy an undead by creating a new living body, while the undead corpse vanishes. Meanwhile, a reverse application of this Resurrection spell can be employed to deny a foe the possibility of a resurrection. In this case, trying to Resurrect a denied ally would be similar to Dispel Magic, and difficult to succeed.

If the only two spells are Revivify and Resurrection, then slot 3 Revivify meets the needs of most recoveries from death in the D&D gaming experience. By contrast, slot 9 Resurrection comes into play for those rare events of an awful demise. Meanwhile the Resurrection spell remains useful so as to self-resurrect whenever the player desires a new body for the character (compare Death Ward that prevents death, Clone that keeps a new body in waiting, and Astral Projection where the death of a projected body simply returns to player character to the body).



In sum:

Slot spell level 3: Revivify (includes Raise Dead)
Slot spell level 9: Resurrection (includes True Resurrection)



Related spells include:

Slot 1 (!): Reincarnation
Slot 4: Death Ward
Slot 7: Regenerate
Slot 8: Clone
Slot 9: Astral Projection

 

[clearstream]

Currently, there are four resurrection spells: Revivify, Raise Dead, Resurrection, and True Resurrection.

For completeness in such a discussion, Reincarnation and as you go on to mention, Clone and Death Ward. They're not the same as the four you list of course.

Really there only needs to be two resurrection spells.
• Revivify (when body is reasonably whole)
• Resurrection (when the body or soul no longer exists, or resurrection would otherwise be impossible).

It is kind of true that the distinction between Rez and True Rez could be dropped, leaving just the L9 spell. Ditto Revivify and Raise Dead, putting that at L5 right? For me that feels like a reasonable case, although I am also fine with things as they stand, and have gotten play from the very specific differences.

 

[Yaarel]

For completeness in such a discussion, Reincarnation and as you go on to mention, Clone and Death Ward. They're not the same as the four you list of course.

Right. Reincarnation.

However, I find Reincarnation as-is to be a less useful spell.

The way I make it useful is Reincarnation becomes a level 1 spell. That way, if a new player character dies, the fellow party members can give the player (namely the willing soul), the option of having this same character come back as an entirely different race but with the same memories. Not every player is interested in such an invitation. But level 1 is where the spell becomes interesting.

By the time Revivify becomes routine, the character is already in the next tier, levels 4 to 8. So, Reincarnation becomes less useful because it changes the character concept that has already received significant investment.

It is kind of true that the distinction between Rez and True Rez could be dropped, leaving just the L9 spell. Ditto Revivify and Raise Dead, putting that at L5 right? For me that feels like a reasonable case, although I am also fine with things as they stand, and have gotten play from the very specific differences.

I feel level 3 is fine for a combined Revivify and Raise Dead. The incentive to avoid Exhaustion is already enough to make the players rush. If they miss the window of opportunity, then levels of Exhaustion are the consequence.

Perhaps, each day of death equals a level of Exhaustion. So too many days result in Death from Exhaustion. Then Resurrection comes into play as a last resort.

 

[Salthorae]

Right. Reincarnation.

However, I find Reincarnation as-is to be a less useful spell.

Huh, we just reincarnated someone in our TBT game last week, it was great fun. He started as a half-orc and now he's a tielfing dealing with the fact that he's no longer a Strong Half-orc but a weak Tiefling.

So I'm unclear on your Resurrection idea here. Are you rolling Resurrection up into True Ressurection's 9th level spell so you have a gap from 5th level PC play up to 17th level PC play where there are no intervening spells to bring someone back?

 

[Yaarel]

So I'm unclear on your Resurrection idea here. Are you rolling Resurrection up into True Ressurection's 9th level spell so you have a gap from 5th level PC play up to 17th level PC play where there are no intervening spells to bring someone back?

So for clarity:

Slot 1: Reincarnation
Slot 3: Revivify
Slot 9: Resurrection

I will update the original post too.



I am fine with the leveling gap between Revivify and Resurrection. At slot 3, Revivify is already able to cover almost all resurrection needs, especially when it also includes Raise Dead.

At slot 9, Resurrection is only for weird corner cases. I expect players to make a quest to find a spellcaster at the legend tier, who knows the Resurrection spell. Such as a Cleric in a powerful city, or famous remote pilgrimage site. This spellcaster might well require a favor in return, to further certain goals.

 

[Charlaquin]

Personally, I don’t like the idea of rolling Raise Dead into Revivify. I like that at early levels, your only option is yo drag your fallen ally’s body to the nearest temple and pay the local priest to bring them back. In a major city there might be a priest powerful enough to Raise Dead, but if you’re out on the borderlands the best you can hope for is Revivify, and that’s where Gentle Repose comes in handy. I think that creates a really nice dynamic.

I’d be fine with Reincarnation being at the same level as Revivify, giving you an option for bringing someone back who’s past the Revivify time limit, at the cost of them having to be in a different body. But I think 1st level is too early because that makes it accessible to starting characters and removes that early-game period where you can’t bring your allies back yourself and have to drag them back to town.

I think combining Resurrection and True Resurrection is a great move.

 

[jasper]

says nay.
How about changing the cost of Revivify to 500 gp

 

[Blue]

In sum:

Slot spell level 3: Revivify (includes Raise Dead)
Slot spell level 9: Resurrection (includes True Resurrection)

EDIT: I misunderstood. Rewriting.

It seems like if the body is mangled, then we're looking for a 17th level or higher caster. That makes certain kinds of death a lot closer to permadeath.

 

[Salthorae]

At least the new UA gives revivify to Druid, Ranger, & Paladin... so there are options out there not cleric, but yes the point still stands.

It is a big step towards permadeath for many many levels.

 

[Shiroiken]

I like the concept of Revivify, but as a DM I despise it as written. In a campaign I had that went to high level, they were still using Revivify as the primary resurrection method. Once they had to use a Wish spell, because the PC fell into the Abyssal Storm of the Demonweb Pits, but that's it. It's just TOO good compared to Raise Dead and even Resurrection, as the 1minute limitation is seldom a problem (only once did the party cast it during combat before the 1minute was up).

In my current campaign I copied the penalty from Raise Dead onto Revivify. They're not level 5 yet, but depending on how it goes, I may make this a permanent rule.