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Rethinking the roles of Goblins, Orcs, Kobolds and so on
- Thread starter Kobold Avenger
- Start date
dreamthief
First Post
I'm starting an IC PBP goblins game. You can sign up on the IC forum. 
the Jester
Legend
Valonian orcs
Well, back in 2e when orcs were lawful evil, I had detailed a warlordship of orcs on one of the major continents of my campaign world, Valonia. Now that 3e is out I've made Valonian orcs a subrace; the two major differences from savage orcs are the tendency to law and favored class fighter. Likewise, Valonian half-orcs tend to law and favor the fighter class.
Around Valonia are several human islands that have, for several centuries, formed the Free Trade Alliance (FTA) that wields the most economic clout of any group or nation in the campaign world (or at least the explored part of it). The major (monotheistic) religion of the campaign is a very Lawful one, which has spread throughout the Valonian orcs through the actions of dwarven missionaries. This is worship of Galador, also called the Light, who ignited the sun a million years ago. So now the Galador-fearing orcs really want to be accepted as a "civilized" race and really want in the FTA. But of course, human predjudice has so far prevented this.
The final twist on this is that the orcs of Valonia have learned certain religious rites that allow them to take distilled sunlight (kind of like super holy water) and turn it into a powder that's extremely volatile. This substance (sunpowder) has in turn been developed into a number of sunpowder weapons, such as arquebuses and cannons. So the Valonian orcs have a secret "ultimate weapon" to use, both as leverage and in war... and being orcs, they remain extremely warlike.
I used to have a kobold kingdom, gained through sheer weight of numbers, but that was roughly a hundred years ago (I passed some game time when the pcs did some plane hopping and stuff) and I'm not sure if they held onto it or not.
Well, back in 2e when orcs were lawful evil, I had detailed a warlordship of orcs on one of the major continents of my campaign world, Valonia. Now that 3e is out I've made Valonian orcs a subrace; the two major differences from savage orcs are the tendency to law and favored class fighter. Likewise, Valonian half-orcs tend to law and favor the fighter class.
Around Valonia are several human islands that have, for several centuries, formed the Free Trade Alliance (FTA) that wields the most economic clout of any group or nation in the campaign world (or at least the explored part of it). The major (monotheistic) religion of the campaign is a very Lawful one, which has spread throughout the Valonian orcs through the actions of dwarven missionaries. This is worship of Galador, also called the Light, who ignited the sun a million years ago. So now the Galador-fearing orcs really want to be accepted as a "civilized" race and really want in the FTA. But of course, human predjudice has so far prevented this.
The final twist on this is that the orcs of Valonia have learned certain religious rites that allow them to take distilled sunlight (kind of like super holy water) and turn it into a powder that's extremely volatile. This substance (sunpowder) has in turn been developed into a number of sunpowder weapons, such as arquebuses and cannons. So the Valonian orcs have a secret "ultimate weapon" to use, both as leverage and in war... and being orcs, they remain extremely warlike.
I used to have a kobold kingdom, gained through sheer weight of numbers, but that was roughly a hundred years ago (I passed some game time when the pcs did some plane hopping and stuff) and I'm not sure if they held onto it or not.
I just want to bring this up:
That's alot of races to have their own little civilizations to develope...what I mean is that to be even somewhat realistic they each have to have their own space so that they could become separatly unique.. That's alot of land to take up..
Did that make sense?
That's alot of races to have their own little civilizations to develope...what I mean is that to be even somewhat realistic they each have to have their own space so that they could become separatly unique.. That's alot of land to take up..
Did that make sense?
Graf
Explorer
Kobold Avenger said:
This -isn't meant to a be a slam or a troll but why put something in if it doesn't mean much. I usually resist the more extreme aspects of play (in my game recent examples have been: minataur PCs, a paladin with a dire boar special mount). If I were you (and I realize I'm not btw) I'd go to extremes.
Make the little buggers bright red (for the red dragons)! Then have everybody in your world think that's normal. They think the little gold & silver colored guys are precious little angles and the red scaled ones are all dangerous bastards.
(then make a little gold theif who steals from the PCs and make them confront the sterotypes of the local guards....)
Shaggy said:
I think it does. Though I realize I have a different take.
Generally you require geographic seperation and time for divergent cultures to emerge from a single group.
On the other hand if you have already an developed culture then the question is whether cultures assimilate.
I'm no PhD but a barrier to assimulation in the real world is definitely experince. If you look at the way assimulation has occured in the last few hundred years in the US the degree to which the new groups assimilate is correlated with their ability to be mistaken for the original settlers.
(Given that all most all of these races are distinguishable from each other by even casual observation I think this is important to bear in mind).
Your point is good I think but there are more factors. The net result is that people can grow up in the real world very geographically close to each other and still have woefully little knowledge about nearby "cultures" (or subcultures).
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MeepoTheMighty
First Post
In my campaign based loosely and quite anachronistically around 18th century Europe, the hobgoblins are going to take the place of a still-active Byzantine culture, facing off against a strong theocratic Arabian-style culture to its south.
My kobolds will be more neutral than evil, and will be the major force behind a worker's revolution in eastern "Poland" and parts of "Russia." I've always felt that kobolds make the perfect communists
The gnomes are going to plop down perfectly into "Switzerland," they just don't know it yet. What can I say, they make good watches.
I'm not sure where/if goblins, orcs, and gnolls fit in just yet.
My kobolds will be more neutral than evil, and will be the major force behind a worker's revolution in eastern "Poland" and parts of "Russia." I've always felt that kobolds make the perfect communists
The gnomes are going to plop down perfectly into "Switzerland," they just don't know it yet. What can I say, they make good watches.
I'm not sure where/if goblins, orcs, and gnolls fit in just yet.
Kobold Avenger
Legend
So Hobgoblins, Bugbears, could be modelled along the lines of the Ottoman Empire or the Mongolians while the Goblins, Kobolds, Orcs, Ogres, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, other Humans and Gnomes could represent other parts of Europe and Asia.
But generally most of the races should be kept neutral, therefore you wouldn't be able to easily make assumptions as to the bad guys are until they do something.
But generally most of the races should be kept neutral, therefore you wouldn't be able to easily make assumptions as to the bad guys are until they do something.
I think Orc, certain elf, and Lizardfolk/Trogs would make good uses for the different cultural aspects of African tribes.
Even moreso, some Elf, Gnoll, and Lizardfolk could work with Native American style tribes, and such.
Hobgoblins make Great Mongles.
Oh dear. Stalin as a Dragon.
Even moreso, some Elf, Gnoll, and Lizardfolk could work with Native American style tribes, and such.
Hobgoblins make Great Mongles.
Oh dear. Stalin as a Dragon.
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Happiest_Sadist
First Post
You gave too much to the kobold. They are already the best race for sorcerers. (The natural armor and 30 foot move while being small is nice.) I suggest simply the elimination of their light sensitivity and the skill swith. The feat makes there be no reason for any arcane caster to be anything else.
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