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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 5820195" data-attributes="member: 1465">Not IMXP. I played with definitely more average Joes than powergamers, and average Joes do not whine about their bad choices nearly as much as powergamers do. In fact, by definition average Joes do not need to "memorize every feat, power and spells in the book" to enjoy the game... if they feel they need to do that, it means they are powergamers! (or powergamers wannabe, at least)I think that the fact that so many people here believe that knowing every character option and then making the perfect character creation is "needed" (even if it's just the core) in order to play well, is a sign that they are in fact powergamers at heart. Which obviously isn't against the law... but it just tells that retraining rules are exactly for powergamers. It's powergamers who are terribly afraid of making a sub-par choice, not average Joes.I didn't mention this before, but I am not a mean DM, and I've always allowed my average Joes to delay choosing some level-up features if they sincerely weren't prepared for making a choice. But whenever I played in a game with retraining rules, IMXP those 2 cases I mentioned before always come up: (a) there's always someone who has preplanned his PC even more maximized by purposefully choosing e.g. the best spells/feats for low levels knowing that he would drop them later when they're not so good anymore. This is not wrong, but it doesn't compel me enough to add retraining rules to my games, also because they are an excuse for bad spells design (i.e. designing spells that work only at low levels because after all you can drop them, instead of designing spells and other stuff that never make you regret your choice). (b) some of the average Joes don't know what to choose, and instead of trusting the DM's suggestions (or in my case, delay the choice and give it another thought at home) there is the same powergamer guy at point (a) forcing them to speed up choosing whatever since they can always drop it later, discouraging the average Joe from trying to become a better-than-average Joe because the powergamer cannot wait for him.</blockquote>

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