Retroactie Effective Spellcaster Level? [UA Paragon Classes]

[reiella]

Considering the UA paragon classes that provide effective spellcaster levels for certain races/class combinations.

Something I considered/thought about.

I know if you don't have the appropiate level when you (first/initially) gain the benefit, it is of no effect.

But what if you take a level in the appropiate class later.

For instance, an Elf Paragon 2 has one 'wasted' Effective Spellcaster level that has no effect because the Elf has no levels in Wizard. For his next level, teh elf takes a level of Wizard, becoming Elf Paragon 2/Wizard 1. Would he have an effective spellcaster level of 2 for spells per day/caster level (ie, the benefit applies retroactively) or a spellcaster level of 1 (the benefit is lost if you don't have a spellcaster level when you gain the benefit).

My initial opinion is that they 'lose' the effective spellcaster level, even if they later gain levels in wizard.

 

[Gilwen]

Considering the UA paragon classes that provide effective spellcaster levels for certain races/class combinations.

Something I considered/thought about.

I know if you don't have the appropiate level when you (first/initially) gain the benefit, it is of no effect.

But what if you take a level in the appropiate class later.

For instance, an Elf Paragon 2 has one 'wasted' Effective Spellcaster level that has no effect because the Elf has no levels in Wizard. For his next level, teh elf takes a level of Wizard, becoming Elf Paragon 2/Wizard 1. Would he have an effective spellcaster level of 2 for spells per day/caster level (ie, the benefit applies retroactively) or a spellcaster level of 1 (the benefit is lost if you don't have a spellcaster level when you gain the benefit).

My initial opinion is that they 'lose' the effective spellcaster level, even if they later gain levels in wizard.

that would be my opinion as well and IMC is what happens.

Gilwen

 

[Count Arioch the 28t]

I just delete the text that says "If you don't have levels in XX, you gain nothing"

So a 3rd level elf paragon without previous wizard levels casts as a 1st level wizard. I think it's stupid that they put that text in, and I generally ignore it.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I agree with both Gilwen (you lose it) and Count Arioch the 28t (you can use it IMC).

 

[Tatsukun]

IIRC, the Human one says "+1 level of previous spellcasting class".

So, I would say that you loose those.

-Tatsu

 

[Pax]

I wouldn't do that, Tatsuken - because all that will do, is cause people to NEVER start out with JUST the Paragon levels, if they intend to be spellcasters.

Elves might go Elf Paragon (1), then pick up a level of Wizard [going to Paragon(1)/Wizard(1)], then back to Paragon for the other two levels. Gnomes, Half-Elves, and Humans could possibly do likewise.

However, for those races which get a +1 caster level with their first level of paragon, that's not going to work. Of those published, that'd include only the Drow Paragon, I beleive.

I'd work out with the player how to handle such a situation where they go with their Paragon levels exclusively, and THEN pick up spellcasting class levels. Probably, I'd not let them USE more of those Paragon "+1 level" abilities, than they had spellcaster class levels to begin with.

IOW, an Elf Paragon(3)/Wizard(1) gets to cast as a second-level Wizard, while an Elf Paragon(3)/Wizard(2) gets to cast as a 4th level wizard. After that, it'd be "wizard level +2" for whatever wizard level the character manages to reach.

 

[reiella]

Well, it looks like by the letter, it prohibits retroactive application.

So I got another thing to drop into my House Rules document, since I kinda dislike most class situations where "Order of Acquisition" is a significant effect on the end product.

 

[Darklone]

As a houserule, you might think about increasing his caster level by one for each non casterlevel he obtains later till he reaches the level appropriate for the paragon class.