Return of the DonkeyHorse!

[Holy Bovine]

I know some will balk at its being a 3PP, but that's not universal.

My only problem is that it seems to be pdf only...and that's MY problem, not a problem with the product itself.

I'd like to know page count myself. Also it doesn't have the 2 things I'd really like - stronghold & ship building costs. Once you get a really good laser printer pdfs are not that big a deal anymore - now I just have to get that really good laser printer

 

[Holy Bovine]

when I was reading the original thread. I could have sworn I had seen a 3PP pdf for 4E for just this type of stuff, but I just couldn't find it..

until now: Markets & Merchandise

I don't have the pdf myself, but maybe the publisher or hopefully an owner of the pdf could chime in.

Oh and thanks for the link! +rep

 

[I'm A Banana]

I can't honestly advocate ignoring it because then you're telling your players "No" by simple fiat.

I never tell my players "no."

I prefer to tell them "neigh."

 

[MichaelSomething]

Honestly, I wasn't expecting a product like that to already exist. Then again, I really shouldn't be surprised. You can always find the thing you're looking for if you're willing to look.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Almost always.

 

[bouncyhead]

when I was reading the original thread. I could have sworn I had seen a 3PP pdf for 4E for just this type of stuff, but I just couldn't find it..

until now: Markets & Merchandise

Aha! There's my freakin' mule!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Aha! There's my freakin' mule!

Why would you hide your psionic mutant behind a link?

 

[El Mahdi]

deleted

 

[Hussar]

DannyA - you're comparing 3e core to 4e core. Sure, you can excise all you like, but, in 4e, the presumption is that rules are there to be used.

I couldn't care less about the economic impacts, I worry about the in game impacts. Group 1 uses the Big Book of Mundane Items and gets a couple of plusses to just about every skill plus a number of mechanical effects. Group 2 doesn't use the book, or excises those rules from the core.

Who do you design for?

Sure, if it's only my group, then great, but, it's not just my group. You mentioned psionics, and if a designer presumes psionics, that's a mistake. Ok, but, psionics are not part of 3e core rules. You're absolutely right they shouldn't be presumed.

But, can I presume that the party will have access to Fly spells? After all, that's core, and certainly not a terribly difficult thing to get in 3e. Should I presume that a 7th level party has access to Flying magic or not? And, why or why not?

And this becomes the problem. Every time you add more of this stuff TO CORE, the designers have to presume that it's in play. And, like it or not, in 4e, anything that appears in a PHB, DMG or MM is considered core.

Now, this 3pp PDF? Fantastic. Love it. Great stuff. No designer is ever going to presume that it's in use. Anyone who wants to use it can do the work of adding it into the game. More power to them. OTOH, I don't have to remove it from anything. Everyone's happy.

 

[Zaran]

You guys are 50/50 on support of the book.

I don't see why every printed book that WotC has to be Core. One can suggest that only the PHBs, MMs, and DMGs are Core and everything else is extra.

I think what is core and what isn't pretty much depends on the GM anyway. And even if it was stamped CORE RULES INSIDE on the cover I don't think it would destroy anyone's game.