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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Composer99" data-source="post: 8809594" data-attributes="member: 7030042">I'm not sure I'm up for reverting to a mechanical instantiation of 3.X/4e version of saves (whether as saves or as static defences), much less the TSR-era saves.However, I do have to say that the fact that your saves only scale with level if you are proficient with them has just about never sat well with me. To my mind, what TSR-era saves have going for them that 5e saves ought to emulate is that they actually get better as you gain levels.While 3.X/4e saves/defences increase steadily as you gain levels, that is offset by the fact that monster save DCs or attack rolls, depending on edition, also increased steadily, leading to the treadmill that 5e tries to get away from. In fact without magic items, as far as I'm aware 3.X/4e saves/defences end up falling behind on the treadmill as monster save DCs/attack rolls increase faster than the saves/defences increase innately.5e saves you're not proficient with have more in common with 3.X/4e than TSR-era saves - not only don't they stay on par with monster save DCs as you gain levels, but because save DCs escalate as the average CR of enemies you face increases, they get worse over time. I see this as basically re-creating the worst aspects of the 3.X/4e treadmill.This doesn't happen with weapon attacks (since basically no one is going to make a habit of making attacks without proficiency), and while it also happens with ability checks, I expect it happens to a lesser extent (because check DCs scaling isn't baked into the system the way save DC scaling is), and in any case it just doesn't rub me the wrong way quite as much.Suffice to say while I am sure 1D&D won't make any changes to way PC saving throws work, I would much rather that it did approach them with the spirit of TSR-era saves in mind.(Here I should point out that, to my mind, there is nothing about bounded accuracy qua bounded accuracy that prohibits instantiating saving throws such that player characters just get better at them across the board as they gain levels; the principle of the thing is that the d20 should still be the primary determinant of success.)</blockquote>

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