OneDnD Return to the 3 saves for 1D&D?

Horwath

Hero
Should 1D&D return to classic 3 saving throws?
And how would it be done?

And using all abilities with that option also?


3 Saves for 1D&D;

Fortitude save: current STR and CON saves
Reflex save: current DEX saves
Will save: current INT, WIS and CHA saves.

how to use all abilities?

Fort saves: str+con mod
ref saves: dex+int mod
will saves: wis+cha mod

Every class would have proficiency in one saving throw:

fort save: barbarian, fighter, sorcerer, artificer
reflex save: bard, ranger, rogue, monk
will save: cleric, druid, warlock, wizard

average save modifier with various abilities:
16,16,16,8,8,8 = +6 over 6 saves = +1. +6 over 3 saves = +2
14,14,14,12,12,12 = +9 over 6 saves = +1,5. +9 over 3 saves = +3

then we move base DC back to 10 from 8.

and we add half proficiency mod to unproficient saves. Round down.
just to have all saves scale somewhat with levels, not depending only on ASIs

resilient feat would add proficiency in one save. with +1 ASI included as normal.
 

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payn

Legend
Why are we adding proficiency 1/2 mods to nonproficient saves? Seems like bounded accuracy was set up to stop having to do things like this?

Also, not a big fan of use X or use Y saves. Just makes ability scores routine and boring.
 

Lojaan

Adventurer
Works for me. Especially as it's how many years in and no one has been able to explain concisely what even int or cha saves even are.

I would swap your wis and int around tho. Wis as awareness of surroundings works well with reflex saves.

(Not sure how int works for fort either but hey, maybe reading books in DnD makes you stubborn :p)
 


Works for me. Especially as it's how many years in and no one has been able to explain concisely what even int or cha saves even are.

I would swap your wis and int around tho. Wis as awareness of surroundings works well with reflex saves.

(Not sure how int works for fort either but hey, maybe reading books in DnD makes you stubborn :p)

Int saves work for reflex, as you can calculate trajectories in your head.

What I do reject is calling those saves "classic" which instead would be "spells", "paralyzation, poison and death magic", "staves, wands and rods", "breath weapons", "petrification and polymorph"...

Sometimes I think, proficiency should grant a bonus to those categories and you can decide yourself which stat is relevant.

Poison, paralyzation and death magic is probably connected to con, but maybe also wisdom. breath weapons might be countered with dex (avoid) or con (resist) and so on.
 

I kinda like that it would make strength a bit more viable as a stat. Currently having class proficiency in strength saves is a big oof.

No. Strenght is the best of the rare saves. So many animals that grapple or trip you force a strength saving throw. And woth the current 1D&D rules, strength saving throws can be used to escape regular grapples. Which I really like.
 


Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
I think I'd prefer if they went back with the weird saves of the old editions, but with the maths of the more recent ones, totally separating them from the ability scores!

Breath/Blast/Beam
Magic Items/Curses
Polymorph/Petrification/Transmutation
Poison/Paralyze/Death
Spells/Magic/Psi
 

Dausuul

Legend
I would certainly prefer to return to Fort, Ref, and Will saves. Out of the three saving throw groupings we've had, it's solidly the best. They were conceptually easy to grasp; none of the three was clearly more important than the others; most effects could slot easily into one of the three; and the names didn't overlap with other similar mechanics.

However, I think 1D&D's mandate for backward compatibility is going to make that a nonstarter. The best we can hope for is a rebalancing of saving throws to make all six equally important.
 

I just want less different saves. I think a situation where every PC was proficient in 2 of them would be absolutely fine, honestly. The current six-save situation is just annoying and feels deeply ill-distributed. So yes please return Fort/Ref/Will, it's the only grouping I've seen people really grok and it has a simplicity that works really well.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
When I think "Classic," I think of:
  • Poison/Death Ray: a save throw for avoiding poison, sure, but also everything that affects your bodily functions and life force....things like system shock, disease, instant death, and necromancy. Would later be called "Fortitude," then Constitution.
  • Magic Wands: a save throw for jumping out of the way of something, like the beam from a magic wand. It would later be called "Reflex," then Dexterity.
  • Paralysis/Turn to Stone: a save throw for resisting change (like getting changed into stone), force effects, or physical strength (like breaking magical bindings that "paralyze" you.) Would later be rolled into Fortitude, then become Strength.
  • Dragon's Breath: a saving throw made against area effects (like dragon's breath). It models your ability to cover up in time to avoid something. Would later get rolled into Reflex, then Dexterity.
  • Spells/Magic Staff: a catch-all save throw for resisting charms, enchantments, curses, and other spells and effects not covered above, a measure of things like influence, personality, and willpower. Would later be called "Will," and then split into Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma.
Do we need to go back to them? Nah. They're fun in their native system (BECM), but I imagine they would be clunky and weird in the modern 5E D20 System. (See also: Fort/Ref/Will.)
 
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Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
but I imagine they would be clunky and weird in the modern 5E D20 System. (See also: Fort/Ref/Will.)
Old school save are so arbitrary and weird, that's why I love them: it makes magic and supernatural effects something parallel to the physical/mental attributes of the character, something a character has not much power over.

It makes magic spells and magical features more strange and special.

Just have them be 1d20 + Class bonus + Race bonus + proficiency bonus against a DC.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
I'd kinda like to replace all save throws with a single one, called "Luck." I'm talking ALL saving throws, including death saves.
All character classes would be proficient, but no ability score would adjust it...a "Luck save" would always be (1d20+ProfBonus), every time, no matter how you optimized your stats.

It's probably a bit too monochromatic for most D&D players, but I'd like to take it for a test drive someday.
 

What I do reject is calling those saves "classic" which instead would be "spells", "paralyzation, poison and death magic", "staves, wands and rods", "breath weapons", "petrification and polymorph"...
Super meh. Plenty of people round here cut their teeth on 3E, and it came out over 20 years ago. When someone says "classic three saves" it's clear what they're talking about, because BD&D/AD&D had more than three, so that can't be what they're referring to.
 




Lidgar

Legend
Two saves: Physical and Mental.

Physical: Str/Dex/Con. Use your highest modifier from any one of these stats and add your proficiency bonus if your class is proficient in physical saves.

Mental: Int/Wis/Cha. Use your highest modifier from any one of these stats and add your proficiency bonus if your class is proficient in mental saves.

Warriors and Experts proficient in Physical Saves.

Priests and Mages proficient in Mental Saves.
 
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