Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 8809699" data-attributes="member: 20564">Fair enough.This supports my point which was that PCs only have 2 good saves.Let's take a look.  A 17th character will likely have a DC of 8+6(prof)+5(ability) = 19.  So a +9 is 50%.  Let me take a look at some higher CR creatures in the MM to compare.Storm Giant has four good saves vs. 17th-20th level characters at CR 13.Balor (CR 19) has four good saves.Empyrean has <s>four</s>FIVE good saves.  It has four listed as enhanced:  Str +17, Int +12, Wis +13, Chr +15.  But the default so Con is +10 so it also qualifies.Kraken (CR24) has four good saves.Ancient Red Dragon has 3 good saves (50% or better), and one almost there.  Heck, an adult red almost has the same.  I'm not going to go through all the dragons, but assume there are more.Solar (CR21) has three amazing saves.Planetar (CR 16) has 3 good saves.Marilith (CR 16) has three good save, and WIS only misses by 1 at +8.Androsphinx (CR 17) has three good saves.Demilich (CR18) has three good saves.Lich (CR21) has three good saves.I think the facts speak for themselves, that creatures have up to 4 good saves sort of depending on their Epicness.Thank you for reminding me of that, that's a good point.  Though Con and Wis aren't "sheer power".  I've got people in this same thread putting down both of them as not a big deal.</blockquote>