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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8812547" data-attributes="member: 7030563">And I think you are wrong.  Yes players have low saves, but they also have overwhelming powers and spells to compensate for those low saves.As I said, players are weakest and die most often at low level when DCs are makeable even with low unproficienct saves.I concentrated on psychic scream because that is the example YOU used and I provided numerous examples of very effective ways to counter it, including some widely available at 5th level.Psychic Scream is one example, but whatever example you throw out there will be LOTs of counters to it and those counters will be common in most parities at that level.We played Rise of the Drow recently and our party was hit us with the highest damage spell I have seen in a game.  A Drow Matron/demon boss hit us with a spell published in the adventure that did 20d20 damage (it was 10d20 of necrotic and 10d20 of acid I think) on a dexsave.  One PC (Paladin Warlock) made his save I think and still went down, 1 PC (Range-Fighter) made his save and had like 10 hit points after he used absorb elements for the acid part of the damage.  My character saved and took no damage because she had evasion (Arcane  Trickster 9/Arcane Archer 6/Shadow Sorcerer 1), she would have died outright without evasion.  Our cleric was not in the AOE.    Next Round the boss put hold person on me (which I failed) and the Ranger (who had proficiency from a subclass and passed), and our Cleric (who failed despite proficiency), but by that time the Paladin was back in the fight having benefited from mass healing word by the cleric  who also turned most of the undead henchmen in the same turn and I had used a wand of conjure animals to surround the boss, her two drow gaurds and the few undead that did not fail with a bunch of giant bats.  I followed up the conjure animals with a bonus action quick toss sneak attack against one of the guards using a dart and then readied an action (action surge) and hit the other guard off my turn (on one of the bat's turns who went next and used help), with a shot from my long bow which included sharpshooter+grasping arrow+sneak attack+menacing attack using an arrow+2.  In one turn I had brought multiple allies (and actions) on to the battefield, significantly damaged one guard and severely damaged the other while also reducing his movement, frightening him and causing him further damage when he tried to move.   After the boss's turn I was held for several rounds, eventually I made the save, or maybe she died first I can't remember, but the point is we survived that battle fairly easily despite the enemy having high power spells and starting far away and being able to do massive damage and having a 19DC.  Once the Paladin got in close and could use counterspell, it was over for her.Our party was not abnormal, it was built on point buy using published rules and we did not have any uber-powerful magic items and we survived relatively easily.  That is not a specific example, it is an actual example from play at 16th level.</blockquote>

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