• Welcome to this new upgrade of the site. We are now on a totally different software platform. Many things will be different, and bugs are expected. Certain areas (like downloads and reviews) will take longer to import. As always, please use the Meta Forum for site queries or bug reports. Note that we (the mods and admins) are also learning the new software.
  • The RSS feed for the news page has changed. Use this link. The old one displays the forums, not the news.

2E Returning to 2nd Edition

Salamandyr

Adventurer
But, if you want to put effort into hand crafting a believable fantasy world, with all the bells and whistles that entails (re: Middle Earth, Harry Potter, Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, Narnia, etc), then I think 1e, 2e and yes, even 3e (I can't believe I just said that!...), are better systems.
:)

^_^

Paul L. Ming
(quote abbeviated for space) You are too right. I will say, 5e gives a VERY enjoyable gaming experience. That consistency however is it's weak point. It gets rid of the lows, but also the highs, leaving you with a consistently fun experience lacking the transcendence occasionally achieved by earlier editions (but also the occasionally game wrecking disasters those editions could be prone to as well).
 

lowkey13

Exterminate all rational thought
Hiya!

I'm a 1e/HM4 guy myself. We never really got into 2e. We tried it for about 2 years or so, but went back to 1e and BECMI (or other RPG's like Powers & Perils, MSHAS [Marvel..the "FASERIP" one], Star Frontiers or Gamma World 3rd, etc).

I've found that if you want to just put in "a bit of effort, but don't have time to REALLY do much" (e.g., less than a couple hours, tops, per week), then you're better off with a more simplistic game, mechanics wise. To this end, 5e is EASILY the 'best' version of D&D.
Counterpoint-

Moldvay/Cook B/X is the best D&D for simplistic, fun, not-much-effort D&D.
 
I think there is a disconnect as to what "story" means. There are the stories we read in books, and then they're are the stories we tell with our buddies while drinking a beer. Put another way, some stories begin with "Once upon a time, there lived a princess..." And some begin with "one time, Uncle Lou found a wasp nest in his garage..."

5e better works for those novelesque stories with structure, acts and growth, while AD&D played straight leads to those amusing or amazing anecdotes we share with friends.
 

Reynard

Adventurer
5e better works for those novelesque stories with structure, acts and growth, while AD&D played straight leads to those amusing or amazing anecdotes we share with friends.
I'm not sure this is true. 5E isn't a narrative game by any stretch of the imagination. it still relies on mechanical systems and random number generators to determine outcomes. The DM is free to railroad in 5E, sure, but she was free to do that in 2E as well. In some ways, 5E is "wackier" than AD&D and so may even be better for, "This one time, at bard camp" type stories. I don't think any version of D&D lends itself better or worse at pre-constructed narratives versus after-the-fact reminisces, other than to say that no version of D&D is good at narrative play without a lot of heavy lifting by the DM and buy in by the players.
 

digitalelf

Explorer
Random insta-death does not make for good stories. Imagine that at the end of Infinity War Thanos snapped... and all the heroes, including ones in the Microverse, died. Good story? Imagine that Vader shoots Luke's X-wing in the Death Star battle. Good story? Imagine that Batman gets hit by a stray bullet and bleeds out. Good story?

D&D is an RPG game. It is designed so that characters can play a role in a story. Stories are best when they have intent, rather than being random. While it is possible to use the mechanics of D&D for Hack and Slash with little to no story, it s not really role playing... and is not really D&D.
It's awesome that you enjoy playing D&D like stories told in movies and novels. It is. :cool:

But...

[Begin Grognard Rant]

But Do NOT... Do not call my (or other's) games, where there IS an immersive story, but bad, and yes, totally random things (like death from a trap) can happen to the characters, "Hack & Slash" or "Not really role-playing... and not really D&D".

You are far too close to "one true waying" things here, and it's not cool!

You do you, and let other do themselves without saying we don't play D&D or have immersive stories because of things such as random PC death.

You don't like that way of playing? Fine, cool, awesome, good gaming to you; but don't bad mouth mine or other's preferred playstyle because of it!

[/End Grognard Rant]
 
Last edited:

JonnyP71

Explorer
I embraced 5E when it came out - indeed I embraced the playtest before the finished game appeared - and I liked it. I liked it a lot.

But I tired of it after a while, advancement was far too rapid, everyone was pushed towards the 'superhero' levels of play *much* too quickly for my liking. Combat irritated me a little at the start, but after 3 years of 'whack a mole' I was thoroughly disillusioned. Even little, seemingly insignificant factors, such as the tone of the artwork, the language style of the books, and the insistence on listing average hp and damage in monster stats - while being minor gripes at the start, festered into pustulent boils...

I've gone back to running 1E and 2E games. It's not nostalgia. I prefer them. They suit my DM style much more, and I'd much prefer them as a player too (if I ever got to play). I prefer the traditional classes and races, I prefer it when certain classics are rarer, I like the fluff, the eccentricities. I prefer the art, the modules, and the writing style of 1E, I think 2E's surprise/initiative/combat mechanics have never been bettered. I like BECMI as well, but get precious few opportunities to play it....

No, it's not just nostalgia at all. I'm home again. And I don't have a yearning to leave....
 

Yardiff

Explorer
I would love to fine a group in the San Diego area who plays 1e/2e because of everything said JonnyP71 and others in this thread. Sadly I'm not free to find one because of RL stuff. Maybe soon..sigh.
 
Bingo, Psionics in 2E were way overpowered. In fact, they broke the game at my groups table.
I was a player in a two PC Dark Sun campaign with psionics. The other guy rolled 00 and got psionics. He also had an 18/99 Strength AND was wealthy.

It was still fun.

/tangent
 

digitalelf

Explorer
I was a player in a two PC Dark Sun campaign with psionics. The other guy rolled 00 and got psionics. He also had an 18/99 Strength AND was wealthy.

It was still fun.

/tangent
Just a minor nitpick...

Unless your DM was playing it his own way (nothing wrong with that :D), no roll for psionics was necessary in Dark Sun as everyone is at the very least, a "Wild Talent":

The Dark Sun Campaign Setting said:
Dark Sun is a world of powerful psionics. Every player character has at least one psionic talent, as do many of the non-player characters and monsters. A thorough understanding of The Complete Psionics Handbook is required for full enjoyment of
any DARK SUN™ campaign.
Also, DS did not use percentile dice for "exceptional" STR... Since the default range was 5 - 20 (4d4+4 being the default rolling method) all characters were "exceptional" by regular D&D standards.

Just sayin' :p
 
Last edited:
Just a minor nitpick...

Unless your DM was playing it his own way (nothing wrong with that :D), no roll for psionics was necessary in Dark Sun as everyone is at the very least, a "Wild Talent":



Also, DS did not use percentile dice for "exceptional" STR... Since the default range was 5 - 20 (4d4+4 being the default rolling method) all characters were "exceptional" by regular D&D standards.

Just sayin' :p
We didn't have access to the Complete Psionics handbook. The other PC had full psionics, not just a wild talent.

And we rolled 3d6 in order, just like vanilla D&D. But now I'm feeling a little ripped off due to that: I could have really used a 20 Dex for my (mostly) rogue--we custom built classes from the section about that in the DMG.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
I would love to fine a group in the San Diego area who plays 1e/2e because of everything said JonnyP71 and others in this thread. Sadly I'm not free to find one because of RL stuff. Maybe soon..sigh.
Damn I was in San Diego for a week! Leaving today though, no time :(
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
It's awesome that you enjoy playing D&D like stories told in movies and novels. It is. :cool:

But...

[Begin Grognard Rant]

But Do NOT... Do not call my (or other's) games, where there IS an immersive story, but bad, and yes, totally random things (like death from a trap) can happen to the characters, "Hack & Slash" or "Not really role-playing... and not really D&D".

You are far too close to "one true waying" things here, and it's not cool!

You do you, and let other do themselves without saying we don't play D&D or have immersive stories because of things such as random PC death.

You don't like that way of playing? Fine, cool, awesome, good gaming to you; but don't bad mouth mine or other's preferred playstyle because of it!

[/End Grognard Rant]
I didn't spell it out, but this is what I was getting at. There are many ways of playing. It's ok to prefer one over the other, but it's not cool to insist that an RPG *must* have a certain feature that only fits one style of play.
 

digitalelf

Explorer
I didn't spell it out, but this is what I was getting at. There are many ways of playing. It's ok to prefer one over the other, but it's not cool to insist that an RPG *must* have a certain feature that only fits one style of play.
Apparently, I hit a nerve by pointing out that jgsugden was doing just that, as that person has since blocked me. :erm:
 
Last edited:

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
Apparently, I hit a nerve by pointing out that jgsugden was doing just that, as that person has since blocked me. :erm:
That is unfortunate.

I prefer d&d, and 5e the most, but I think that it is very important that we try other systems, because the system impacts how we play. Variety is good, and for some campaigns d&d is not the best system.
 

Advertisement

Top