[Rev] Spells Slated to be Revised
- Thread starter Felon
- Start date
Tom Cashel
First Post
Re: Re: Re: Re
No comment. I just wanted Hong's promises of vengeance to be quoted. Actual size.
hong said:
No comment. I just wanted Hong's promises of vengeance to be quoted. Actual size.
Tom Cashel
First Post
hong said:
What on earth are you talking about?
Liquide
DEX: 4
This is the haste from the d20 modern SRD
OK I really do not like this spell as is, but it seems to fill a niche in d20modern.
Now look at some spells from the d20 system SRD
Well as long as Expeditious Retreat exists in Dungeons & Dragons I see no reason to change Haste to the version that exist in the d20 modern SRD, it is really a too big trade-off for a 3rd level spell in Dungeons & Dragons where you have Expeditious Retreat as a first level spell (change is really just +2 to AC for two extra spell levels). In d20 Modern however Expeditious Retreat doen't exist and the spell fills a purpose there.
A spell on an arcane casters list should primarily affect the casters ability to survive and deal damage in combat, while its secondary effects should prove effective on allies/other classes. For buffing spells we have the Divine Casters, their spells is their to aid/help others. As in Dungeons & Dragons I see nothing wrong with haste, an arcane spellcaster per the core rules/SRD benefits more from haste then the other classes which in my book is just fine. Still the AC haste bonus on can argue about, but I find the spell just right.
If haste was changed to the d20 modern haste and if Expeditious Retreat still will be in the book the spell goes from a no-brainer to a no-way which is not a way to revise a spell in my book. If you need to change the spell just remove the haste bonus to AC, otherwise I feel the spell works fine.
And for having an addtional action, well it is not how many actions you have it is how you use them according to the situation (sure a smack-down thread about what you can do always uses haste, but remember that is under optimal conditions). Remember optimal conditions doesn't happen all the time, and for spellcasters that needs to memorize haste, you have to know that there is a great chance of a powerful encounter to actually validating a memorization of it.
For Sorcerers it is a bit more powerful so maybe you should buff it to 4th level on the Sorcerers list, but in my opinion it is a 3rd leve wizard spell. If one should change it then remove the haste bonus to AC.
My 2 ören
OK I really do not like this spell as is, but it seems to fill a niche in d20modern.
Now look at some spells from the d20 system SRD
Well as long as Expeditious Retreat exists in Dungeons & Dragons I see no reason to change Haste to the version that exist in the d20 modern SRD, it is really a too big trade-off for a 3rd level spell in Dungeons & Dragons where you have Expeditious Retreat as a first level spell (change is really just +2 to AC for two extra spell levels). In d20 Modern however Expeditious Retreat doen't exist and the spell fills a purpose there.
A spell on an arcane casters list should primarily affect the casters ability to survive and deal damage in combat, while its secondary effects should prove effective on allies/other classes. For buffing spells we have the Divine Casters, their spells is their to aid/help others. As in Dungeons & Dragons I see nothing wrong with haste, an arcane spellcaster per the core rules/SRD benefits more from haste then the other classes which in my book is just fine. Still the AC haste bonus on can argue about, but I find the spell just right.
If haste was changed to the d20 modern haste and if Expeditious Retreat still will be in the book the spell goes from a no-brainer to a no-way which is not a way to revise a spell in my book. If you need to change the spell just remove the haste bonus to AC, otherwise I feel the spell works fine.
And for having an addtional action, well it is not how many actions you have it is how you use them according to the situation (sure a smack-down thread about what you can do always uses haste, but remember that is under optimal conditions). Remember optimal conditions doesn't happen all the time, and for spellcasters that needs to memorize haste, you have to know that there is a great chance of a powerful encounter to actually validating a memorization of it.
For Sorcerers it is a bit more powerful so maybe you should buff it to 4th level on the Sorcerers list, but in my opinion it is a 3rd leve wizard spell. If one should change it then remove the haste bonus to AC.
My 2 ören
Gez
First Post
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re
They are not shafted. They could get a bit of nerfing, actually.
That "4-hour-trance" thing is ridiculous and silly. The "autodetect secret door" thing is against their flavor. (I would trade it for a +2 racial bonus to Knowledge Arcana and Knowledge Nature. Explained by the fact they love to study magic, and especially by the fact these wankers get a whole century to become adult, they'd better learn some things !)
Felon said:
They are not shafted. They could get a bit of nerfing, actually.
That "4-hour-trance" thing is ridiculous and silly. The "autodetect secret door" thing is against their flavor. (I would trade it for a +2 racial bonus to Knowledge Arcana and Knowledge Nature. Explained by the fact they love to study magic, and especially by the fact these wankers get a whole century to become adult, they'd better learn some things !)
Re: Re: Re: Re: [Rev] Spells Slated to be Revised
True, a character won't have the option of having every single character level devoted to spellcasting. In essence, D2M forces multi-classing. so you have to wait a few more levels to max-out damage fireball or lightning bolt. But the effect is not any more toned-doned for a D2M mage than it is for a D&D character who opts to spend 3 levels in another class, or for that matter takes one of those rubbishy PrC's that only allow every-other-level spellcasting advancement.
For that matter, some spells are toned-up to compensate for the 10-level progression. Check out Animate Dead, for instance. A D2M necromancer does not get short-changed on the number of undead that he can control simply because he never advances beyond 10th-level. Instead, they just double the multiple so that Animate allows the caster to control up 4 times his level in undead. That's a much sweeter deal than in D&D.
hong said:
True, a character won't have the option of having every single character level devoted to spellcasting. In essence, D2M forces multi-classing. so you have to wait a few more levels to max-out damage fireball or lightning bolt. But the effect is not any more toned-doned for a D2M mage than it is for a D&D character who opts to spend 3 levels in another class, or for that matter takes one of those rubbishy PrC's that only allow every-other-level spellcasting advancement.
For that matter, some spells are toned-up to compensate for the 10-level progression. Check out Animate Dead, for instance. A D2M necromancer does not get short-changed on the number of undead that he can control simply because he never advances beyond 10th-level. Instead, they just double the multiple so that Animate allows the caster to control up 4 times his level in undead. That's a much sweeter deal than in D&D.
Wolfspirit
First Post
I hope that Deathwatch gets a change. As written, there's a lot to be interepreted from it :b Is it an evil spell ("Foul powers of unlife")? Does it work on invisible or hidden creatures? Can you count the number of things you can sense? Stuff like that.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re
This is not germaine to the topic of the thread, but I do feel compelled to point out that it is a shaft to give a race ability score modifiers and racial features that do not "synergize" well with the race's favored class. Halflings make good rogues. Dwarves make good fighters.
Specifically, giving a race a bonus to skills that are not class skills for the favored class is a shaft. To de-shaft, at the very lease WotC could make them de facto class skills for that race.
Giving a race a penalty to an ability score that hurts the race's favored class in exchange for one that doesn't help the favored class is also a shaft. Forget for a moment the fact that a lower Con means even fewer hit points; a lower Con also means the one skill that is Con-based will suffer a penalty as well, and that happens to be the skill that the most vital to a wizard. How many Dex skills are on the wizard's class-skill list?
You're right about the portal auto-search ability being inappropriate--inappropriate for a wizard anyway. They're the least likely candidates to play the role of scouts.
I'll just assume that I don't need to go into a lengthy explanation as to why giving a wizard longsword proficiency is a lame idea...
And don't even get me started on the 4-hour trance crap..."Elves don't sleep, they just need to meditate for 4 hours. Of course, we can't have this being in any way beneficial to an elven arcane spellcaster, so we still require that they lay still like a lump of crap for 8 hours just like everyone else." Brilliant.
You're correct in thinking that elves' posssess inappropriate racial features. You are incorrect to somehow interpret that as "they're not shafted, they could actually stand a bit of nerfing." What they need is to be fixed, pure and simple. If nothing else, make their favored class ranger and be done with it, for all I care.
Gez said:
This is not germaine to the topic of the thread, but I do feel compelled to point out that it is a shaft to give a race ability score modifiers and racial features that do not "synergize" well with the race's favored class. Halflings make good rogues. Dwarves make good fighters.
Specifically, giving a race a bonus to skills that are not class skills for the favored class is a shaft. To de-shaft, at the very lease WotC could make them de facto class skills for that race.
Giving a race a penalty to an ability score that hurts the race's favored class in exchange for one that doesn't help the favored class is also a shaft. Forget for a moment the fact that a lower Con means even fewer hit points; a lower Con also means the one skill that is Con-based will suffer a penalty as well, and that happens to be the skill that the most vital to a wizard. How many Dex skills are on the wizard's class-skill list?
You're right about the portal auto-search ability being inappropriate--inappropriate for a wizard anyway. They're the least likely candidates to play the role of scouts.
I'll just assume that I don't need to go into a lengthy explanation as to why giving a wizard longsword proficiency is a lame idea...
And don't even get me started on the 4-hour trance crap..."Elves don't sleep, they just need to meditate for 4 hours. Of course, we can't have this being in any way beneficial to an elven arcane spellcaster, so we still require that they lay still like a lump of crap for 8 hours just like everyone else." Brilliant.
You're correct in thinking that elves' posssess inappropriate racial features. You are incorrect to somehow interpret that as "they're not shafted, they could actually stand a bit of nerfing." What they need is to be fixed, pure and simple. If nothing else, make their favored class ranger and be done with it, for all I care.
Last edited:
Similar Threads
