[Rev] Will they remove the toad?

[Sanackranib]

toads

I certainly hope they do get rid of it... I've seen a lot of people who play wizards simply decide not to take familiars because of their relative fragility and risks of using one, as well as the somewhat limited benefits - except for toads, that is. The +2 CON is completely out of line with the benefits granted by other familiars, and when you factor in things like dwarven and gnome spellcasters, things start to get a bit silly.

perhaps the toad is there with +2 CON for those of us that had to roll for familiars back in 1e & 2e who got toads when they really were worthless.

the toad in 3e IMO is fine as it is. if you use any of the d20 books in your game like I do then you must be aware that several other familiars grant a stat bonus. the way it works is basically the better that the creature is in combat (thus used as a guardian to protect the mage) the weaker its "powers" are. toads are oe of the weakest combatants so they have a better power.

you are right when you say that some wizards don't take famaliars because of their fradgile nature. but sometimes its not a metagame thing so much as a character concept thing. everytime I had to roll on the old famaliar chart I rolled a toad (except once hen I got a pusdodragon) so when I played my 1st 3e mage I actually picked toad. they make great spys if you know how to use them and +2 CON is always usefull when you start with only 4hp.

thats just my 2 cents worth.

 

[FlimFlam]

Of course the fact that the familiar was caught in area of effect spells was very conveniently forgotten quite often, and HE NEVER USED IT FOR ANYTHING ELSE! It was used for nothing other than twinking the character.

Lol, is a +2 to Con really all that powerful? It's not even a permant +2 at that.

As for your wizard friend "conveniently forgotting" to include the toad in AE spells... That seems more like a bad player (or DM if you think that is the sort of thing a DM should keep track of) then an abuse of the Toads granted +2 Con bonus.

I have nothing against someone who uses a toad familiar and brings something colorful and interesting to the game. I just hate when players turn the game into nothing but numbers and that familiar is the one most abused.

Again, this is a player issue, not a "balance" issue with the Toad. In the games I've played, the Raven was actually picked as a familiar more then the Toad ever was. So versatile is the Raven. It can scout ahead and even send messages back and forth.

 

[Rel]

My opinion is this: Any Wizard or Sorcerer foolish enough to take the Toad familiar gets exactly what he deserves - one extra hit point per level and an extra +1 to his Fort save. I think that such rewards pale in comparison to the massive benefits to having constant, free aerial recon. That in addition to other possible benefits (such as blindsight for the bat or the ability to speak that the raven has).

Now if all you do is dungeon crawl, this ability will be less useful. But even then, you could leave the familiar at the door to make sure that nobody sneaks up behind you (like a returning patrol of monsters) without you knowing about it.

We are currently engaged in an adventure where we are searching a ruined city that is occupied by large numbers of enemy creatures. The guerilla war that we have been able to successfully wage against them would not have been possible without the Wizard's raven providing a nearly constant stream of information about enemy locations, patrols, troop strength and other activities.

 

[arwink]

Keep the toad. It's a traditional, they're great to have in wilderness games (the number of times you suddenly wish you could scout downstream, or spy on someone on the nearby boat), and they have a certain comedic value if you let them.

 

[FlimFlam]

Plus if you lick them, you can get high.

 

[Darkness]

the best stuff to pick is the stuff the designers felt should be more common. Swords are more common than axes. Humans are more common than dwarves. Fighters are more common than paladins.

Dwarves are better than humans, though; they are probably the most powerful core race.

And I agree that toads should be revised. After all, all other familiar grant benefits that are equal in power to a feat, or half a feat.
And I'd really love to take a feat that gives me +2 Con. Heck, even the Con-increasing epic feat only gives +1...

 

[Gez]

Toad grants +2 Con, yeah... But I can't imagine one of my character with a familiar other than a cat, owl, or raven. Maybe fox, but there are no fox in the rules (the smallest canines we have are Small, foxes are Tiny).

And don't talk about the fox they put in that Dragon issue. 10 Str for a Tiny animal...

 

[Darkness]

And don't talk about the fox they put in that Dragon issue. 10 Str for a Tiny animal...

Or dogs having more Dex than cats (granted, nothing to do with familiars - but everything to do with wonky animal stats).

 

[Baron Von StarBlade]

Dwarves are better than humans, though; they are probably the most powerful core race.

I don't know the 20 ft Base movement that dwarves get is a major pain in the butt. Nothing like have a movement of 10 while plodding along in Full Plate. It has definitely made me rethink a dwarf character at times. However I agree, that darkvision, +2 con and -2 in a throw away stat is pretty nice.

 

[Darkness]

I don't know the 20 ft Base movement that dwarves get is a major pain in the butt. Nothing like have a movement of 10 while plodding along in Full Plate. It has definitely made me rethink a dwarf character at times. However I agree, that darkvision, +2 con and -2 in a throw away stat is pretty nice.

15 feet in full plate, x3 running, I think. But yeah, that's their most (or is it 'one'? ) serious weakness.