Revenue alternatives to new editions

[Umbran]

I have designed about 100 or so PCs in various game systems on my Palm (which is slowly dying), and I run them off of it with no problems- scrolling up or down takes about as much time as leafing through pages. I anticipate doing so with my iTouch eventually as well.

Call me old-fashioned, but I like to see most of the pertinent details without needing to scroll, so I like having something close to an 8x11 size.

Ultimately, though, the character sheet isn't the interesting bit - while some might consider a character builder really cool, display of the sheet is trivially easy to do on paper, even with the builder. To use the software business vernacular, sheet display during play isn't a "pain point". Technophiles may pick it up because it is seems sexy, but you're not really saving the player much effort.

Die rolling - I've had the opportunity to compare in my Deadlands game (in which the dice are somewhat more complicated than D&D). Two players are using devices for die rollers, and the others use physical dice. Consistently, the people using physical dice get it done more quickly. No savings there, either.

Integrate with a virtual tabletop, so you don't need a battle-map and figures, and now you're talking relieving a pain point. You're also talking about far more development time, though.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Me? I grognardy enough that I won't give up the dice. The PDA gave me an unobtrusive way to work on campaigns & PCs while riding the train or sitting in waiting rooms. That I could then have a paperless PC was kind of a side benefit. Best thing, though, is the ability to cut & paste to more easily explore different builds of the same PC without having to transcribe e everything.

Once upon a time, a buddy of mine did design a program for his Commodore 64 (or whatever) to handle hit locations in SFB, but that's about it.

If/when new gaming goes completely digital, you won't see me there.

As for the scrolling, while I agree the iPad or simlar device would be better, its really not bad scrolling on my Palm, and once everything is on my iTouch, I'll be able to zoom in, too.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Depending on an RPG at all for a steady revenue model may simply be unattainable. It may simply be best to focus on another type of product and do RPGs on the side. For example, White Wolf is mainly doing an MMORPG now and Steve Jackson Games is focused on Munckin.

Yay! We have a winner. The problem here isn't with rpg products at all. The problem lies in trying to convert an enjoyable niche hobby into some mass consumable revenue stream.

Companies exist to make money. A larger company means that more profit is needed to bother with a particular product line. The profit motive makes good economic sense but isn't always what is best for the hobby.

The root of the problem then is a sense of entitlement from the industry that the hobby should produce X amounts of revenue. When the hobby does not produce the required revenue to satisfy the demands of the industry then hobby offerings are changed to satisfy revenue demands.

This isn't to say that change within the hobby is never a good thing but that change shouldn't be driven largely by industry revenue demands.

Once that happens then what you get is the industry deciding the nature of the hobby activity instead of the hobbyists.

 

[Umbran]

The root of the problem then is a sense of entitlement from the industry that the hobby should produce X amounts of revenue.

No, that's not a sense of entitlement - that's an economic need. The don't feel "entitled" to money - quite the opposite. They know they aren't entitled to it. They know they can only get it if they produce something you want to buy. Continually offering you what you already have is not a great inducement to buy.

You want someone, anyone, to produce gaming materials and content? Then that activity must be made worth their while - the more time and effort it takes to produce, the more payback is required to make it happen.

If anyone has a sense of entitlement, it is gamers - they seem to think they are entitled to have their favorite in print at all times, as costs they personally find reasonable, and never mind market reality.

 

[Sunseeker]

If anyone has a sense of entitlement, it is gamers - they seem to think they are entitled to have their favorite in print at all times, as costs they personally find reasonable, and never mind market reality.

Everyone should work in retail. EVERYONE. If you have, you will immedately see consumers in a new light. Corporations drive the sense of entitlement into consumer's heads, it's a great marketing tactic, but it also has the consequence of giving people a sense of entitlement.

Companies never feel entitled to your money, the BS they go through to GET your money will make your head spin. Consumers are always the ones who feel they should get things faster, cheaper, and with bigger smiles.

 

[ExploderWizard]

No, that's not a sense of entitlement - that's an economic need. The don't feel "entitled" to money - quite the opposite. They know they aren't entitled to it. They know they can only get it if they produce something you want to buy. Continually offering you what you already have is not a great inducement to buy.

Almost. Companies know that in order to generate ongoing revenue hobbyists need to become steady consumers. Turning gamers into steady consumers is the name of the game.

You want someone, anyone, to produce gaming materials and content? Then that activity must be made worth their while - the more time and effort it takes to produce, the more payback is required to make it happen.

That is how the game is played. Create a demand for a slew of material then charge premium prices for it.

If anyone has a sense of entitlement, it is gamers - they seem to think they are entitled to have their favorite in print at all times, as costs they personally find reasonable, and never mind market reality.

Some do certainly. The modern marketplace makes it possible for most people to find what they are looking for. There are also sellers who produce content that they love and don't have to depend on for their livelihood. Gamers making stuff they like for other gamers.

 

[Umbran]

Almost. Companies know that in order to generate ongoing revenue hobbyists need to become steady consumers. Turning gamers into steady consumers is the name of the game.

Still not a sense of entitlement. They are not "entitled" to these people - they must seek them out or make them.

Depending on your definitions, hobbyists are natural steady consumers. Hobbyists are devoted to participating in or undertaking some activity. Unless your hobby is "lying still on the floor", you probably need (and in fact, want) stuff.

It is the casual participants, the not-quite-hobbyists, who might require effort to turn into steady consumers.

Some do certainly. The modern marketplace makes it possible for most people to find what they are looking for.

Within limits - you can find old products, surely.

There are also sellers who produce content that they love and don't have to depend on for their livelihood. Gamers making stuff they like for other gamers.

Hobby producers have limited time to produce content, so are limited in the quality and quantity they can produce. If you want a higher quantity and quality, they must devote time, and that means they need to raise cost to cover for day-job they aren't doing.

 

[Skyscraper]

It depends on what you expect or want out of the RPG, both in terms of profits and durability. The problem is that many want RPG's to be and remain highly profitable (we'll call this STATE 1), but at the same time highly static (we'll call this STATE 2). I like to refer to the world of books in this, but some could refer to the world of games...particularly that of boardgames.

This will be long...skip if you want to.

Greylord... You seem like a guy with interesting opinions, but you need to keep your posts shorter!

Take this advice if you wish, or don't, but you'll get much more people reading your posts if you keep them reasonably short. Me, I skip posts that have even one fourth of the length yours has.

Sky

 

[BriarMonkey]

While I do think that electronic aids are a potential revenue stream, I don't think that they are a large one. I say that because after noting the comments about dice and character sheets, it dawned on me - as a player, I want one set of tools, but as a DM, I want a different set of tools. (And as an aside, for me personally, on neither side do I want anything that does away with my physical dice.)

Whenever we are dealing with a smaller fragmentation within a niche, the potential revenue gets even smaller. In the case of DM tools, there are a lot less DMs than players, which means smaller margins on any such tools - which may be why WoTC has had such a difficult time getting any real tools out there.

And, actually working in software development, it should be noted that platforms make a big difference as well. As has already been noted, for some a smart phone is enough, while for others, like myself, I need screen space - my netbook is my GM's Screen.

Aside from those snips, I really can't say there is a magic bullet. Any product needs to have some appeal to masses beyond their base.

Right now cooking is big. Foodies are coming out of the woodwork. But, this can be attributed to celebrity chefs, Food Network, a resurgence in understanding foods, and a host of other elements. They have all come together at a point to bring this into the mainstream. This is similar to D & D in the 80s - there was a convergence.

In today's market, so many of the kids are into video games; people have less time than ever to game (or so it seems); the economy is in the toilet; and a lot of what you or I think about our games is not in the public eye - it is niche. So that would seem to point to that if someone could figure out how to market RPGs as a cost-effective, and fun, alternative to video games, they'd most likely make a small wad of cash.

However, away from my horrid ramblings, I think part of the key lies in diversity. If you can have multiple lines that tie together (adventures, board games, books), you can generate interest. And from interest can be derived revenue. Of course, while some of this is being tried now - you must have quality to make it work.

<shrug>
Just my rambling shekels.

 

[Drakmor]

GreyLord, your thoughts intrigue me, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

I did actually read the entire post, and I think I've got the answer to the problem: WotC hires you, you do all the work, we/they get the benefits.