Reversing Undeath?

[matthewajg]

Does anyone know of a way in 4E to reverse undeath? Can it be done? If so, how? Can a person turned into a zombie or wight against their will be raised? This is a big grey area for me, and any clarity would be greatly appreciated.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

There are no general rules. A few undead that can spawn do say something about what is required to raise someone if they become undead. Generally speaking all it requires is destroying the undead form and using Raise Dead as normal. However there are no rules for how one would become most forms of undead. In general this is all up to the DM to decide based on story concerns. IE it could require a quest to locate a specific item. I would encourage DMs to use the opportunity this excellent jumbo sized plot hook give them to the fullest. Remembering of course that some provision should be made to let the formerly undead character participate (if its a PC).

 

[Lancelot]

4e is a lot more narrative than previous editions. It's the DM's call if this is permissible or not.

Rules-as-written, there's nothing stopping you from "killing" the undead then using the raise dead ritual. A creative DM might make it a little more interesting than that, though. Perhaps the person can only be raised if the "master undead" that turned them is also destroyed... or maybe special components are required (The Sacred Ruby of Life, a Phoenix Feather, etc, etc).

In terms of powers that can "restore" them without slaying-then-raising... no, there isn't anything like that. But it could make an interesting Skill Challenge. If the undead-ified person was known to the party in life, perhaps they can restore something of it's mind during a combat by reminding it of who it was. Appropriate skills might include History, Diplomacy, Bluff, Insight and Religion. If the party succeeds on the Skill Challenge, the undead stops attacking and goes "docile", giving the party enough time to cast raise dead on it without actually beating it in combat. This would work particularly well if the undead was powerful enough that beating it in a straight fight would be almost impossible.

 

[Kingreaper]

This would work particularly well if the undead was powerful enough that beating it in a straight fight would be almost impossible.

Or, for a different "consequence for failure" if they are killable, but reducing them to 0 hp will cause them to crumble to dust, making Raise Dead unusable.

 

[Marauder_POV]

What if they are a Revenant?

 

[ppaladin123]

I'm pretty sure it's all flavor and thus up to you to decide.

Officially in 4e, according to "Open Grave," the person turned into a zombie or wight isn't actually that person anymore. Their soul (and memories and personality_ goes to the shadowfell while the body reanimates. For totally mindless undead like skeletons and zombies, it is just a body walking around.

In the case of (most) intelligent undead, the body still has memories that it can use to guide it, but it is basically a new soul-less being. Think of it like a warped and corrupted clone; it has your memories but it has been corrupted by whatever disease/magic created it so the personality it manifests is going to be a twisted reflection of yours. Since it doesn't have a soul, it has a horrible torturous emptiness that it strives to fill by consuming flesh or draining energy or whatever. In 4e flavor text, these creatures are basically totally evil (though they may feel compelled to occasionally grant mercy based on the memories that torment them), but I like the idea of the newly formed being (saddled with memories that aren't really his) trying to "live" without resorting to evil. Maybe it could gain a soul one day through its studies or good works or service and finally be at peace. Then death wouldn't mean the end of its existence (i.e. total annihilation) but rather a release into a (hopefully) better afterlife.

Some intelligent undead like liches and vampires and vengeful spirits/walking dead actually do have souls and are the original person stuck in a dead body or in spirit form. In most cases this is done on purpose to gain power, right a wrong, stave off death until the being can redeem its immortal soul (to avoid going to Hell for example), or just live forever (and maybe avoid Hell without being nice).

You probably need to kill the undead being to recover the body so that the original soul can return and resume life. This could be morally problematic if the new being (an unfortunate ghoul for example) is not depraved villain but rather a lost and scared new life form trying to make sense of its surroundings (bwaahaahaa, evil DM plot point!). Alternatively, you could have the raise dead ritual create a new body for the soul of the departed. Then you might have an evil undead twin (hopefully it has a goatee) running around. Or maybe a pathetic twin that you feel sorry for. Lots of possibilities!

I can see how in some settings you might want to have all undead have souls (e.g. so that zombies are souls trapped in rotting bodies until destroyed and ghouls are tormented beings that now have to deal with a terrible hunger). That is totally up to you.