Review of the Eberron Campaign Guide...

[Crothian]

This has also been very useful, believe it or not. It's like a 1 to 2 page ultra-summary of each of the important things we need to know about Eberron. Lots of pictures, very large-font words. Cliffs Notes: Eberron for the ADHD crowd. And for under $4? Heck yeah.

I will never understand how people can price something like that for over $150.

I just got my copies of Eberron in the mail today so I am looking forward to reading that and getting a review up hopefully in the next week or so.

 

[JeffB]

So far it has been as I've read it. (My lawyer advises me to say "in my opinion, YMMV, etc.")

This has also been very useful, believe it or not. It's like a 1 to 2 page ultra-summary of each of the important things we need to know about Eberron. Lots of pictures, very large-font words. Cliffs Notes: Eberron for the ADHD crowd. And for under $4? Heck yeah.

Thanks for that link- I think the real problem for me with the 3E ECS is simply that If I were to start an Eberron campaign today, and I crack open the book- I just don't know where to begin. The setting is just so broad and all inclusive I cannot find a way to focus on any one area or aspect. I could take the original GH folio, or the 3E FR book and go "OK, I'm going to place my campaign HERE, and the main plot will revolve around BADGUY doing X, Y, and Z. The PCs start in Town A and there is a run-in with an NPC, and and and ......"

Funny thing is- I have no issue running a 1920s/30s style Pulp game because I'm so familiar with, well, Earth. The Pulp era is my second fave style of RPG to run (behind D&D style S&S),. I love the Eberron setting but the ECS is overwhelming to me.

Now the Xen'Drik book? Fine, love it, read it through a gazillion times and regularly steal ideas from it. That book is my absolute fave thing WOTC put out in the 2E and 3E era. It's a whole continent of pure old school style D&D exploration/adventure. It's more of a toolkit, is focused (in it's own way) and alot of nitty gritty detail is missing-totally the opposite of the ECS.

So I'm hoping the 4E ECG will actually be more "focused" and lack a good chunk of the detail compared to the 3E book (which I can use to fill in gaps if/when neccessary).

 

[Rechan]

Thanks for that link- I think the real problem for me with the 3E ECS is simply that If I were to start an Eberron campaign today, and I crack open the book- I just don't know where to begin. The setting is just so broad and all inclusive I cannot find a way to focus on any one area or aspect. I could take the original GH folio, or the 3E FR book and go "OK, I'm going to place my campaign HERE, and the main plot will revolve around BADGUY doing X, Y, and Z. The PCs start in Town A and there is a run-in with an NPC, and and and ......"

Honestly, it's more like a multitude of options than it is all inclusive. You could really do it at random. Pick any Place, any Badguy, and go from there. Read the entry about the place, read the entry about the badguy, and you're good to go. Any badguy in any place can be worked with.

The easiest places are the Eldeen Reaches, Aundair, and Breland. Anything from any adventure can be dropped there, as they're fairly normal.

All you have to do with regards to what you said above is crack open the nation's entry, read what settlements are there, pick one, and pick a badguy group, and you're set.

 

[Cyronax]

I got the 4e ECS and the player's guide this week as well. I think that in terms of user-friendliness, these books are much easier to use for a quick and dirty campaign or just an adventure backdrop.

The main reason for that conclusion is that practically every entry (for an organization (ie. Aurum or a dragonmarked house) or a kingdom (ie. Aundair or Q'barra)) has an organizing NPC within it that kind of shows the flavor of each within it. I really liked how Mordain the Fleshweaver was written up actually. I plan to use his stats as inspiration for NPCs in my homebrew campaign.

Each geographic entry is also very useful as a one-stop information source. Each kingdom can pretty much be used singularly. The only other info you might need to reference are lightening rail linkages with other kingdoms and regions, as well as how international organizations like the Lords of Dust, the Aurum, or the dragonmarked houses fit in.

Overall I really like both books. As a comparison to the two 4e Forgotten Realms books, I think they're much more focused on playing an Eberron game than being a grabbag for DM's to use for their home settings. Its more unified in that regards, but that makes sense given Eberron's 'modern' sense of an internationalized interdependent political economy (ie. dragonmarked houses, airships, lightening rail, the Last War, etc).

My big criticism of the book was that it would mention all the cool magic-tech items and vehicles like the elemental airships, the lightening rail, etc. and it didn't have accompanying stats write-ups or sidebars for DM adjudication.

Sure I could go to the Adventurer's Vault and use the airship stats provided there, but I see the Eberron type magic-tech to be sufficiently unique that they would be given space. (And these aren't in the Player's Guide either).

Anyway, the reason I'm so interested in the magic-tech is because my home campaign uses a lot of airships and warforged/constructs and its partially inspired by Eberron, the Full Metal Alchemist, and the old Disney cartoon Tailspin. Follow the accompanying link if you want to see a lot of detail about that campaign and its world: The Spire and the Abyss - home

Cheers,
C.I.D.

 

[Glyfair]

Hang on- Vol being only level 19? This is being retconned to epic level right now in my head.

This has been discussed in this thread on the WotC forums.

Keith weighs in with:

Sure, but the fact that she NEEDS to protect herself doesn't automatically equate to astonishing personal abilities. It can also manifest as a careful choice of allies, use of rituals and eldritch machines both to conceal her presence and to protect herself should anyone find her, and clever manipulation to lead you astray in the first place. As I said, if you're face to face with Vol, you've had to find her and shatter a host of incredibly potent magical and physical defenses in the process. You've already won a major victory just to get there - and you should have had to face terrible challenges in the first place.

Beyond that, her environment should be a weapon. Again, she needs to protect herself. You can do that by making her personal magical powers greater. Or you can do that through her tools. Perhaps her throne room is an eldritch machine that allows her to channel deadly necrotic force, or to conjure the ghosts of the PC's worst enemies to face them. The point of doing this is to say that much of her power comes from her vast knowledge, and I'd personally represent this through the things that she's created. New forms of undead. Necromantic rituals you've never heard of. Eldritch machines you've never imagined. This also makes her more like Jaela, in that her strength is greatly increased in her seat of power. She's stronger than Jaela when she's away from her throne, but still, when she is there in Illmarrow, she should be far more dangerous than when she's beyond it.

So I agree that she should be more dangerous than these stats show. But I wouldn't represent that with simple personal combat abilities. I'd reflect it in the things she's created and the tools you'll face both before you meet her and when you reach her - her rituals, allies, and eldritch machines.


I'm not sure if you're "not sure" in terms of canon or in your campaign. From canon, it definitely wasn't something she wanted. Due to her death, she's lost access to the full power and potential of her mark. It's entirely possible that if she'd lived, she would have eventually risen above life and death; perhaps she would have been the first to truly attain the Divinity Within. Her undead existence is a mockery of the power she should have. If you want to see her TRUE might, restore her to life and grant her the full potential of her enhanced dragonmark.


Sure, but again, the fact that a dragon might attack me doesn't mean that I can simply make myself strong enough to defeat it in single combat. But I might be able to create tools to defeat it, develop mystic wards or rituals to expose it, create undead allies to aid me. I'm just saying that her personal combat abilities are only a fraction of her actual power.

 

[deadsmurf]

I got the 4e ECS and the player's guide this week as well. I think that in terms of user-friendliness, these books are much easier to use for a quick and dirty campaign or just an adventure backdrop.

The main reason for that conclusion is that practically every entry (for an organization (ie. Aurum or a dragonmarked house) or a kingdom (ie. Aundair or Q'barra)) has an organizing NPC within it that kind of shows the flavor of each within it. I really liked how Mordain the Fleshweaver was written up actually. I plan to use his stats as inspiration for NPCs in my homebrew campaign.

Each geographic entry is also very useful as a one-stop information source. Each kingdom can pretty much be used singularly. The only other info you might need to reference are lightening rail linkages with other kingdoms and regions, as well as how international organizations like the Lords of Dust, the Aurum, or the dragonmarked houses fit in.

Overall I really like both books. As a comparison to the two 4e Forgotten Realms books, I think they're much more focused on playing an Eberron game than being a grabbag for DM's to use for their home settings. Its more unified in that regards, but that makes sense given Eberron's 'modern' sense of an internationalized interdependent political economy (ie. dragonmarked houses, airships, lightening rail, the Last War, etc).

My big criticism of the book was that it would mention all the cool magic-tech items and vehicles like the elemental airships, the lightening rail, etc. and it didn't have accompanying stats write-ups or sidebars for DM adjudication.

Sure I could go to the Adventurer's Vault and use the airship stats provided there, but I see the Eberron type magic-tech to be sufficiently unique that they would be given space. (And these aren't in the Player's Guide either).

Anyway, the reason I'm so interested in the magic-tech is because my home campaign uses a lot of airships and warforged/constructs and its partially inspired by Eberron, the Full Metal Alchemist, and the old Disney cartoon Tailspin. Follow the accompanying link if you want to see a lot of detail about that campaign and its world: The Spire and the Abyss - home

Cheers,
C.I.D.

I don't have my EPG yet, wish I did! But there are stats for an elemental airship in the adventure Seekers of the Ashen crown, my blog has the link here 4E Spoilers - Spoilers, Rumours and Teasers for 4th Edition D&D: Official Previews for 7/15/2009 if you want to see it.

Kinda disapointed there is no airship stats in the EPG itself though.

 

[Cyronax]

Kinda disapointed there is no airship stats in the EPG itself though.

Those stats are cool. Thanks for the heads up.

I also should add for more details about the ECS (IMO of course) --

- The maps (embedded in pages and the foldout) are about as good as I've seen in any gaming product.

- Some of the most obvious parts of 3.x Eberron were not mentioned (The Cabinet of Faces) or aren't given as much time as I would have expected (the Quori, a shorter than expected entry for Xen'drik).

I've skimmed much of the book, but haven't been able to digest all of it. One detail I did notice and thought surprising was how powerful Karnnathi skeletons and zombies are. They are statted out as level 11 skirmishers and brutes, respectively!!

The text does indicate that the 11th level undead does represent the cream of the Karrnathi war machine, but that seems really powerful by comparison to the idea of Eberron's relatively lower-ended power spectrum. And don't get me wrong, I actually like it .... it kind of gave me some ideas if I ever DM an Eberron campaign again.

C.I.D.

 

[Hellcow]

I wish the review had gone into more detail on the changes from 3e to 4e, that's what I am most interested in. The changes to the planes, to dragonmark availability, even the Dhakaan Empire's history {In the Player's Guide the Xoriat invasion was never mentioned, just internal pressure and civil war. I didn't know if they left the invasion out as DM information or if history had been rewritten}.

Speaking to the history of Dhakaan, it's left out because it's DM information. Nothing has changed, and if anything, the ECG contains more information on the daelkyr and the Dhakaani than the ECS did.

IMO, the changes to the planes have relatively little impact on things; If I were writing The Gates of Night today, I wouldn't do anything different. Dolurrh is now called "Dolurrh, the Shadowfell" instead of "the Region of the Dead", but it still IS the region of the dead; the description of the plane and its effects when coterminous and remote are still in line with the original Dolurrh, and there's no Raven Queen there. It makes it easier to help people who want to link Shadowfell material from other books into the setting to do so, but it's not a vast change to the setting itself.

Dragonmarks are specifically discussed in the ECG. While PCs CAN have out-of-race dragonmarks, the ECG clarifies that this is a astonishingly rare thing and that they may be the first people in history to manifest such marks, stating that it shouldn't be casually done with NPCs and that it could result in conflict with the dragonmarked houses.

But the main thing is that the EPG is written as "PC knowledge" and as such things that may appear to be changes may actually be "PCs don't really know anything about the Age of Demons".

 

[Hellcow]

Some of the most obvious parts of 3.x Eberron were not mentioned (The Cabinet of Faces) or aren't given as much time as I would have expected (the Quori, a shorter than expected entry for Xen'drik).

While I LIKE the Cabinet of Faces and would love to see this rectified in a Dungeon article - it was part of the original setting proposal and has never been addressed in the level of detail I'd like - I'm not sure I'd see it as one of the most obvious things to get space in the ECG. It's only mentioned once in a throw-away capacity in the original ECS (page 304), and while it is addressed further in later books, we only had so much room to work with. The Xen'drik section could certainly have been larger, but it is six pages compared to half a page in the original ECS and four pages in the original Player's Guide to Eberron. So compared to City of Stormreach or Secrets of Xen'drik, six pages isn't much - but it's an improvement over those previous multi-subject sourcebooks.

I am sad about the lack of Quori information. The issue here is that since the quori can't physically manifest on Eberron, devoting pages to their stats is a questionable use of space. You do get two pages on the Inspired, two pages on the Dreaming Dark, and an additional five pages on Sarlona, including a lot of information otherwise only available in Secrets of Sarlona. So i hope we will get quori stats at some point - but I am glad that we were able to provide more general information about the DD, Inspired, and Riedra than we did in the original ECS.

But the main thing is that this one book can't address things in the same level of depth that you get from topic-specific sourcebooks like Secrets of Sarlona or Dragonmarked. I'm happy with what we did get in; there's more information about a lot of things that were glossed over or entirely unmentioned in the original ECS. But yes, there are gaps.

And lest I come off as saying "It's perfect! How dare you criticise it!" - that's not what I mean at all. I'd love to do more with the quori or Cabinet of Faces, and it's good for me to hear the things you want to see in the future (if the opportunity arises). But we only had so many words to work with, and I'm pleased with what we did manage to do with things like the Lords of Dust, House Tarkanan, the Dreaming Dark, the impact of the Last War, and for that matter, new threats like the Fading Dream.

 

[Cyronax]

Hellcow,

I really have enjoyed Eberron since it came out. Its my favorite published D&D setting, along with Greyhawk and Dark Sun (maybe that means its a 'best in a decade kind of setting'?).

One of the things I latched on to early within your settin was the Cabinet and especially the Aurum (which got a lot of great new info in the campaign book -- and are one of my favorite D&D secret societies hands down). So those are my favorites, and biased favorites at that since I tend to like the more covert ops/Cold War-ish aspect of your world.

I also really liked the amount of space given to the Citadel -- the Dark Lanterns were always my favorite organization for heroes in Eberron. In total it sort of seemed like the equivalent of Marvel Comics S.H.I.E.L.D. and I had been toying with stats for a really really big elemental skyship/airship to emulate the Helicarrier that hovers over Marvel's version of NYC. I didn't make that original analogy either .. I read it somewhere on the WotC boards or possibly here on EN World, but I thought it was cool nonetheless.

So if you are planning any articles on the DDI, my preference is for some that highlight some of the things I like. An article about the Cabinet, the Aurum, and the Lanterns would rock!

C.I.D.