Revised Challenge Ratings/Encounter Levels (pdf)

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Re: Re: Pseudo-deity Package

Hello!

Ah, this bit if info allows me to calculate the CR of both versions of Tiamat

Just need the value of the Lernean quality for hydras now. Come on, stop dawdling

Lernean: + 0.5/each possible extra two heads.

eg. 8 headed Lernean Hydra can have an extra 8 heads = CR +2

Remember also that Pyro/Cryo hydras gain the appropriate Fire/Cold subtypes.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Um, the REASON you're not understanding are arguments is because your argument has NO BASIS. The numbers ARE NOT INFLATED as you suggest. By UK's system, you get the XP you deserve. I have been testing the system for weeks now IN ACTUAL GAMEPLAY, and I have not seen ANY inflated XP awards. My PCs reached Level 2 after 7 encounters, one of which was against a bugbear, two goblins, and four hobgoblins. I might add that one PC died in that encounter and only one was still "up" after the battle because ti was so difficult. This is not inflated, this is perfect.

Still need to work out kinks, but this is NOT one of those things.

Easy Tiger! Enough with the uppercase letter shouting OKAY.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Sounds inflated to me. It's supposed to take around 14 standard encounters, regardless of level. Maybe your PCs are consistently facing tougher encounters than standard.

It takes 13.33 moderate encounters to level up, but Anubis didn't state all 7 were moderate encounters...?

The CR/EL system shows that low-level encounters that are even slightly higher CR are much more dangerous (and hence give greater rewards).

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

Re: Re: Heal and Harm

Hiya mate!



I dunno, it means Harm is still overpowered.

You do get a save, so it will often only be half that amount.

Clerics don't need to memorise healing spells, they have that spontaneous casting thingamy - don't they...?

Clerics can only spontaneously cast spells with cure or inflict in their name. Heal and Harm can't be spontaneously cast.

Exactly, so they are actually less powerful at epic/immortals levels.

Well people can use either method.

At epic level, I think getting the 10/level is worthwhile: it's not as if it will make _that_ much difference

Darren

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

Hiya mate!
It takes 13.33 moderate encounters to level up, but Anubis didn't state all 7 were moderate encounters...?

The CR/EL system shows that low-level encounters that are even slightly higher CR are much more dangerous (and hence give greater rewards).

I did question if he was having more than usual moderate encounters.
One thing, though. As you know I consider the system (for my group) gives XP values that are too high and I don't know if that applies at all levels.
But I feel there is a problem at low levels that is distinct from that, due to a built-in bias in the system to accelerate advancement of low-level characters - as a natural consequence of the fact "that low-level encounters that are even slightly higher CR are much more dangerous (and hence give greater rewards)". This is not a good thing, because it means that people will shoot through the system too quickly.
If you don't want to change the system to account for this because you don't want to add arbitrary factors, that's okay. But I think there should be a sidebar in the final document discussing this, because people new to the system won't be aware of it, and offering an optional rule for those who want to maintain normal advancement rates at that level.
(It's not important to work out what that rule would be just yet, with the system still being designed, but I'd be happy to hear a commitment to include one.)

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Pseudo-deity Package

Lernean: + 0.5/each possible extra two heads.

eg. 8 headed Lernean Hydra can have an extra 8 heads = CR +2

Remember also that Pyro/Cryo hydras gain the appropriate Fire/Cold subtypes.

Thanks. I'd guessed at .25/head, based on half the cost of an extra attack, so having it confirmed may mean I'm getting a feel for the system - a good thing.

Darren

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

Yeah I can just see it now - instead of simply including all the revised CRs from the Monster Manual I can breakdown every single monster point by point. It should only take another 100 pages!

I think it was meant that you should include the unrounded figure: so if a creature works out at 6.3, you list 6.3 so if people choose to add or remove fetures they know the cost will still be right. More useful, but oesn't look as pretty

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

My short term memory is very poor but you are probably right - I could have sworn someone mentioned it.

<about the SR using original MM CR & SR>
Well, I mentioned it one or two messages before Anubis in this thread. Maybe that was it?

Darren

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

XP for single creature EL

<about calulating XP based on single creatures rather than groups>
Indeed, upon reflection I don't consider it a viable solution (I did have a headache last night thats probably the reason for my meandering), in fact I am not sure if one is even necessary.

It should be a viable solution. At present, you calculate EL as accurately as possible, using fractions/percentages: see the example in the document of mixed creature EL. It ends up as 241%, modifying the final EL by 2.

Calculating creature XP by individual EL (as is done in the DMG) means that you get to use the rough figure for encounter level calculation, but you can calculate the XP cost of the PCs exact victories.
In that example, the players are facing:
Base Unit: Red Dragon EL 24 (EL +/-0) = 100%
4 Pit Fiends EL 23 (EL -1) = +66.6%
4 Cornugons EL 22 (EL -2) = +50%
10 Barbazu EL 20 (EL -4) = +25%

What happens if they defeat the dragon, most of the demons, but then are forced to flee the last pit fiend and cornugon, gaining a partical victory. In the official system, it's easy - you just calculate XP for the defeated creatures. In your system you need to go through the rigmarole of working all the above out again.

Where the monsters are of equal EL, and found in pairs, groups or 3, 4, 6, 8, and so on, the XP for both methods is the same. But by using individual EL for XP, you can give the proper experience for trickier cases.

Darren

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

Re: Pseudo-deity Package

Hiya mate!
Its certainly not identical. Its 'similar' in many respects though, but probably fractionally better.

Drat. It was the DDG pseudo-deity I was looking for (since I dont have your version). On reflection, though, it should be easy enough to work out.
I remember mention of a Deity Stat Array. Any idea what stats they get?