Revised CRs/ECLs continuation thread

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

I understand where both of you are coming from, even if you do not understand each other.

(*I can't believe I'm being a mediator for once.*)

Anubis is going as far back as the "race" and adding classes and templates from that point forward.

Upper_Krust is going as far back as the "player" and adding races, classes, and templates, from that point instead (and, presumably, a character sheet as well).

As far as I can tell there is no 'mechanical' difference. So the only disagreement can be a subjective one; not an objective one.

 

[Anabstercorian]

I'm not going to bother to explain my reasons as half the time neither of you use anything resembling logic, but I'm on Krust's side on this one.

 

[Upper_Krust]

The Golden Rule

Hi all!

I am thinking of adding 'the Golden Rule' to the CR/EL system whereby a monsters CR cannot exceed double the value of its Hit Dice.

eg. A Dretch is a 2 HD Outsider which gives it CR +1.5.

Therefore it can't have a CR higher than 3 (even though its abilities take it to CR 5)

The majority of creatures won't be affected by this although notable exceptions are the Planetar and the Solar.

However, if you allow PCs to become these creatures determine their ECL normally. (I have ECL and CR in the IH anyway).

 

[Upper_Krust]

V.4 Update

Hi all!

Just letting you know I am still working away on v4 (in between working on the IH).

I have updated everything to 3.5 specifications (which makes sense since I agree with most of the revisions).

I should *touch wood* have the main body of the work finished sometime tomorrow (by that I mean everything except the entire list of Revised Monsters).

Aside from the changes induced by 3.5 there are a lot of other revisions and I also hope I have made things somewhat simpler to understand - I suppose you'll all let me know one way or the other.

 

[Anubis]

Re: V.4 Update

Hi all!

Just letting you know I am still working away on v4 (in between working on the IH).

I have updated everything to 3.5 specifications (which makes sense since I agree with most of the revisions).

I should *touch wood* have the main body of the work finished sometime tomorrow (by that I mean everything except the entire list of Revised Monsters).

Aside from the changes induced by 3.5 there are a lot of other revisions and I also hope I have made things somewhat simpler to understand - I suppose you'll all let me know one way or the other.

Just . . . When you get V.4 done, post it EVEN WITHOUT THE MONSTERS! I want the rules! I don't care about your ratings for the monsters because I don't count some things such as Darkvision and Scent!

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

YES, UK! Do post the v.4!!!!

Question: When using CR as ECL, what about the feats and ability increases added for level advancement (i.e. +1 stat/4 lvls [0.025 CR] and +1 feat/3 lvls [+0.066 CR]). Is that included in the CR?
I would think that the feats are, but ability adj. is not, and it does after all add up to + 1CR over 20 lvls. Care to comment?

Sorcica

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Sorcica mate!

YES, UK! Do post the v.4!!!!

Question: When using CR as ECL, what about the feats and ability increases added for level advancement (i.e. +1 stat/4 lvls [0.025 CR] and +1 feat/3 lvls [+0.066 CR]). Is that included in the CR?
I would think that the feats are, but ability adj. is not, and it does after all add up to + 1CR over 20 lvls. Care to comment?

They are both factored to Character Classes. They are factored to Monster Hit Dice where appropriate...as far as I know Monsters don't gain ability score increases +1/4 Hit Dice.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Hi Sorcica mate!



They are both factored to Character Classes. They are factored to Monster Hit Dice where appropriate...as far as I know Monsters don't gain ability score increases +1/4 Hit Dice.

That's what I mean. If my PC is a LeShay for example, the ECL without wealth is around +53 IIRC. So my Fig1/LeShay is a 54th lvl character. Shouldn't I get feats and ability bscore increases for that? And won't that affect final CR/ECL?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again mate!

That's what I mean. If my PC is a LeShay for example, the ECL without wealth is around +53 IIRC. So my Fig1/LeShay is a 54th lvl character. Shouldn't I get feats and ability bscore increases for that? And won't that affect final CR/ECL?

Well you would gain the LeShay Feats mentioned in its description and you would gain the LeShays Ability Scores (or whatever bonuses the Racial Traits bestow).

But no, you do not gain feats outside your Hit Dice/Class Level Progression, and you wouldn't gain Ability Score bonuses except from Racial Traits and Class Levels.

The LeShay would bestow:

Str: +10
Dex: +34
Con: +26
Int: +22
Wis: +12
Cha: +36

It also has 17 feats derived from its Hit Dice (listed in the ELH - which I suppose a kind DM might let you modify).

So if you rolled up you character (or used point buy); you would then add the above traits. Then you would add you +1 Feat for being a Fighter and +1 Feat for 1st-level or whatever.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Hello again mate!


Well you would gain the LeShay Feats mentioned in its description and you would gain the LeShays Ability Scores (or whatever bonuses the Racial Traits bestow).

But no, you do not gain feats outside your Hit Dice/Class Level Progression, and you wouldn't gain Ability Score bonuses except from Racial Traits and Class Levels.

The LeShay would bestow:

Str: +10
Dex: +34
Con: +26
Int: +22
Wis: +12
Cha: +36

It also has 17 feats derived from its Hit Dice (listed in the ELH - which I suppose a kind DM might let you modify).

So if you rolled up you character (or used point buy); you would then add the above traits. Then you would add you +1 Feat for being a Fighter and +1 Feat for 1st-level or whatever.

But according to Savage Species you get ability score increases as if you were a character of a level equal to your HD. Since you have to get as many XP as a 'normal' character, shouldn't you get all the benefits as well.
I do realise that this will only further complicate things and increase ECL, but it is just some thoughts...