Sollir Furryfoot
Explorer
Hey everyone, I'm hammering out some house rules for divinity and as a sort of self-check to see how they line up with core D&D rules I sought out to create some outsiders using my system for statting up deities. Assuming the Solar in question was a former human cleric 20, this is what you get applying my rules for Divine Servants.
Link to the rules in question:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=181238
Comments/Criticisms/Observations on this thread and that one all welcome
Note that using my rules, these Solars would not benefit from most standard passive magic items, i.e. enhancement boosts to ability scores, although they still could use Weapons and active or triggered magic items (wands, scrolls, etc...). Most deific types also don't use armor due to the dexterity limitations though these Solars might choose to as their Dex score isn't nearly as high as some of their higher ups. Shields are still game, however in order to compare this with the MM 3.5e Solar I built this one closely to the monster in question.
(Revised) Solar (Divine Rank 0)
Stereotypical Divine Servant
Divine Servant (Former Human) Cleric 20
Type: Large-Sized Outsider (Extraplanar, Good)
HD: 30d8+210 (450 hp)
Initiative: +8
Speed: 50 ft., Fly 150 ft. (Good)
Armor Class: 35 (-1 Size, +10 deflection, +4 Dexterity, +12 natural), touch 23, flat-footed 31
BAB/Grapple: +22/+40
Full Attack: Greatsword +42/+37/+32/+27 (2d8+26, 15-20/x2, +2d6 Fire)
Full Attack (PA 7): Greatsword +35/+30/+25/+20 (2d8+40, 15-20/x2, +2d6 Fire)
Full Attack (Ranged): Mighty Longbow +32/+27/+22/+17 (2d6+17, 20/x3, +2d6 vs. Evil)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Devastating Critical (DC 39), Spells
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 15/epic and evil, divine traits, fast healing 20, SR 32, tongues, true seeing
Saves: Fort +27, Ref +20, Will +30
Abilities: Str 38, Dex 18, Con 24, Int 20, Wis 30, Cha 30
Skills: Bonus = to 33+Ability Score
Feats: Cleave, Dodge, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (Greatsword), Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Mobility, Power Attack, Track, Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Epic Feats: Devestating Critical (Greatsword), Overwhelming Critical
Environment: Any good-aligned plane
Organization: Solitary or Pair
Equipment: Sacred Sword [+5 Keen, (x2) Flaming Greatsword], Sacred Bow [+3 Holy Mighty Composite Longbow], Heaven’s Mantle [+1 divine bonus on all saves]
Challenge Rating: 25
Divine Rank 0: Maximum hit points, base Spell Resistance 32 or no change if higher already. Immunities (Death Effects, Imprisonment, Mind Control, Transmutation, etc…) as per quasideity. Extra partial action per round as per Haste.
Weapons count as epic for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.
Spells: Solars can cast divine spells as a 20th-level clerics. A solar has access to two of the following domains: Air, Destruction, Good, Law, or War (plus any others from its deity). The save DCs are Wisdom-based (DC 20+Spell level).
General Comparisons to the MM 3.5e Solar:
(The Revised Solar here is 2 CR above the MM Solar so some additions in strength are to be expected)
[sblock]Hit points -> This solar has more hit points by far, due to the maximum amount of hit points granted. 450 for the Revised Solar seems somewhat high though the 209 for the MM Solar seems too fragile.
Attack Routine -> Bonus wise, the Revised Solar can strike higher AC targets and deal a fair amount more damage than your casual Solar or choose to deal even more damage than a standard Solar. He doesn't have the dancing greatsword nor as my rules are written ability to get one, so it loses an attack option there. While the dancing weapon seems to be a sacred cow of the creature it doesn't fit my mental image of what the creature is supposed to be. Furthermore, the Vorpal feature isn't dependent on the weapon of the Revised Solar, so much as its feat choice, and is arguably more deadly in this Solar's hands since it goes off on rolls of 15-20 instead of 19-20, though at least allows for a save.
Defenses: Armor class remains the same between the two Solars, though the Revised Solar has a significantly higher touch AC. The standard Solar has a slight advantage in getting better AC, but the extra Attack bonus the Revised Solar gets could make up for this amount if it were to acquire the Combat Expertise feat or simply fight defensively. Saves on the revised Solar are much higher naturally, but it can't benefit from +Resistance saves so I'll call the two equal.
Spells & Spell-like Abilities MM Solar wins this one by far. The revised Solar has a higher Wisdom which means more spells/spells per day/higher DCs, though the MM Solar could potentially gain a Wisdom-enhancing item to even the odds. The revised Solar is less of an arsenal of magic, though he still has the ability to replicate most of the MM Solar's spell-like abilities and ongoing spell effects with its own spells.[/sblock]
Self-Made Conclusions: I think my Revised Solar is a naturally sturdier, more capable warrior with less tricks than a MM Solar. He still has a good number of tricks due to his spellcasting, and he's absolutely deadly up close in combat (he'd have to buy his own slaying arrows to fight at range, however). I think he'd be easier to run, because you don't have to worry about nearly as many spell-likes to worry about, nor have to keep track of two dozen magic items (typically from various enhancement bonuses, misc. defense items, and skill bonuses). I would call this experiment a success, personally I think its cool that this Solar might've once been a devout and powerful cleric of the deity before ascending in status. I plan on doing some other writeups of lesser or greater Solar-type creatures in the near future, experimenting with a few other base classes.
Link to the rules in question:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=181238
Comments/Criticisms/Observations on this thread and that one all welcome
Note that using my rules, these Solars would not benefit from most standard passive magic items, i.e. enhancement boosts to ability scores, although they still could use Weapons and active or triggered magic items (wands, scrolls, etc...). Most deific types also don't use armor due to the dexterity limitations though these Solars might choose to as their Dex score isn't nearly as high as some of their higher ups. Shields are still game, however in order to compare this with the MM 3.5e Solar I built this one closely to the monster in question.
(Revised) Solar (Divine Rank 0)
Stereotypical Divine Servant
Divine Servant (Former Human) Cleric 20
Type: Large-Sized Outsider (Extraplanar, Good)
HD: 30d8+210 (450 hp)
Initiative: +8
Speed: 50 ft., Fly 150 ft. (Good)
Armor Class: 35 (-1 Size, +10 deflection, +4 Dexterity, +12 natural), touch 23, flat-footed 31
BAB/Grapple: +22/+40
Full Attack: Greatsword +42/+37/+32/+27 (2d8+26, 15-20/x2, +2d6 Fire)
Full Attack (PA 7): Greatsword +35/+30/+25/+20 (2d8+40, 15-20/x2, +2d6 Fire)
Full Attack (Ranged): Mighty Longbow +32/+27/+22/+17 (2d6+17, 20/x3, +2d6 vs. Evil)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Devastating Critical (DC 39), Spells
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 15/epic and evil, divine traits, fast healing 20, SR 32, tongues, true seeing
Saves: Fort +27, Ref +20, Will +30
Abilities: Str 38, Dex 18, Con 24, Int 20, Wis 30, Cha 30
Skills: Bonus = to 33+Ability Score
Feats: Cleave, Dodge, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (Greatsword), Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Mobility, Power Attack, Track, Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Epic Feats: Devestating Critical (Greatsword), Overwhelming Critical
Environment: Any good-aligned plane
Organization: Solitary or Pair
Equipment: Sacred Sword [+5 Keen, (x2) Flaming Greatsword], Sacred Bow [+3 Holy Mighty Composite Longbow], Heaven’s Mantle [+1 divine bonus on all saves]
Challenge Rating: 25
Divine Rank 0: Maximum hit points, base Spell Resistance 32 or no change if higher already. Immunities (Death Effects, Imprisonment, Mind Control, Transmutation, etc…) as per quasideity. Extra partial action per round as per Haste.
Weapons count as epic for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.
Spells: Solars can cast divine spells as a 20th-level clerics. A solar has access to two of the following domains: Air, Destruction, Good, Law, or War (plus any others from its deity). The save DCs are Wisdom-based (DC 20+Spell level).
General Comparisons to the MM 3.5e Solar:
(The Revised Solar here is 2 CR above the MM Solar so some additions in strength are to be expected)
[sblock]Hit points -> This solar has more hit points by far, due to the maximum amount of hit points granted. 450 for the Revised Solar seems somewhat high though the 209 for the MM Solar seems too fragile.
Attack Routine -> Bonus wise, the Revised Solar can strike higher AC targets and deal a fair amount more damage than your casual Solar or choose to deal even more damage than a standard Solar. He doesn't have the dancing greatsword nor as my rules are written ability to get one, so it loses an attack option there. While the dancing weapon seems to be a sacred cow of the creature it doesn't fit my mental image of what the creature is supposed to be. Furthermore, the Vorpal feature isn't dependent on the weapon of the Revised Solar, so much as its feat choice, and is arguably more deadly in this Solar's hands since it goes off on rolls of 15-20 instead of 19-20, though at least allows for a save.
Defenses: Armor class remains the same between the two Solars, though the Revised Solar has a significantly higher touch AC. The standard Solar has a slight advantage in getting better AC, but the extra Attack bonus the Revised Solar gets could make up for this amount if it were to acquire the Combat Expertise feat or simply fight defensively. Saves on the revised Solar are much higher naturally, but it can't benefit from +Resistance saves so I'll call the two equal.
Spells & Spell-like Abilities MM Solar wins this one by far. The revised Solar has a higher Wisdom which means more spells/spells per day/higher DCs, though the MM Solar could potentially gain a Wisdom-enhancing item to even the odds. The revised Solar is less of an arsenal of magic, though he still has the ability to replicate most of the MM Solar's spell-like abilities and ongoing spell effects with its own spells.[/sblock]
Self-Made Conclusions: I think my Revised Solar is a naturally sturdier, more capable warrior with less tricks than a MM Solar. He still has a good number of tricks due to his spellcasting, and he's absolutely deadly up close in combat (he'd have to buy his own slaying arrows to fight at range, however). I think he'd be easier to run, because you don't have to worry about nearly as many spell-likes to worry about, nor have to keep track of two dozen magic items (typically from various enhancement bonuses, misc. defense items, and skill bonuses). I would call this experiment a success, personally I think its cool that this Solar might've once been a devout and powerful cleric of the deity before ascending in status. I plan on doing some other writeups of lesser or greater Solar-type creatures in the near future, experimenting with a few other base classes.
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