Revision Spotlight on Gnomes

[Ranger REG]

So, does that mean the bard class will have more illusion spells since that is what they mostly use it for in their "David Copperfield" performances? (Well, most of them, anyway.)

Which begs the question for a change in favored class... Will there be a more sensible rule for creating specialist wizards?

I'm still not accepting the Weapon Familiarity racial trait rules unless you can give me something for the HUMAN fighters or any combat-oriented classes (and that may include HALF-ELF).

 

[cerberus2112]

One of the more annoying gnome concepts is the gnomish tinker. I have never understood why gnomes would be thought of as these little guys that loved to tinker with technology... and at the same time they also loved to deal with illusion. That never made sense. Illusion made some sense, but the techonology tinker thing never made sense.

It would seem better that humans would be the technology people since they're the ones that gain the most benefit from technology... (and they get the extra skill-points at first level).

The Tinker Gnome is a holdover from Dragonlance; ever since DL, they've been the wacky inventors (whose inventions don't work, much to the detriment of the operator!). I agree that this change will give gnomes a more distinctive flavor; it brings them closer to being the PC fey race, which is what I want.

 

[CrusaderX]

The problem with gnomes is that they're supposed to fit too many widely different roles. There's the intelligent tinker gnome, then there's the trickster illusionist gnome, and then the fey gnome who talks to animals.

The gnome seems like the jack-of-all-trades race.

And since the Bard is the jack-of-all-trades class, the gnome just might work best as a Bard, after all.

 

[kenjib]

The Tinker Gnome is a holdover from Dragonlance; ever since DL, they've been the wacky inventors (whose inventions don't work, much to the detriment of the operator!). I agree that this change will give gnomes a more distinctive flavor; it brings them closer to being the PC fey race, which is what I want.

How does making their favored class an urban focused musician smooth-talker make them closer to being a PC fey race?

 

[Lalato]

How does making their favored class an urban focused musician smooth-talker make them closer to being a PC fey race?

I don't recall that bards had to be urban-focused. The Bard and Sorcerer are the two classes that have the closest kinship with fey. Both have innate arcane talents which seems well suited to the fey. One might argue that Druids are also somewhat close to the fey, but this would only be true of certain creatures... like dryads.

Bards can be urban-focused as in Cappen Varra from the Thieves World series of books. Bards can also be more primitive (for lack of a better word) as in Felimid mac Fal from Kieth Taylor's Bard series. It all depends on how you want to play it. Felimid mac Fal was actually descended from the fey.

--sam

 

[kenjib]

I don't recall that bards had to be urban-focused. The Bard and Sorcerer are the two classes that have the closest kinship with fey. Both have innate arcane talents which seems well suited to the fey. One might argue that Druids are also somewhat close to the fey, but this would only be true of certain creatures... like dryads.

Bards can be urban-focused as in Cappen Varra from the Thieves World series of books. Bards can also be more primitive (for lack of a better word) as in Felimid mac Fal from Kieth Taylor's Bard series. It all depends on how you want to play it. Felimid mac Fal was actually descended from the fey.

--sam

I'm talking about the D&D bard, not the bard of literature, myth, fantasy fiction, and/or folklore. The D&D bard has no more of a game-mechanic connection to the fey than does a wizard, fighter, or rogue, and a significant portion of his ability is an advantage in the social arena. This is where he can excel better than any other character, but it is best served in an intrigue laden, urban campaign. Most discussions I've seen of the bard end up saying that bards hold their own best in urban focused campaigns. Having played a bard, I agree. Granted, this focus of the bard might change in 3.5e, but since we have no evidence that it will, it would be silly to simply assume that it does.

 

[Will]

Well, two things. First, the races of D&D bear little resemblance to anything in particular... dwarves in several myths turned to stone in sunlight, frex. Gnomes were more like brownies than anything else, and dwarves not much different.

I agree that bards seem to fit the traditional D&D role of gnomes. Well rounded, good illusion spells, and freeform magic? Yeah.


As for strength... strength of halflings and gnomes is simply silly. A halfling male is 35 lb. on average... about 1/5 the size of a human male. Even conservatively speaking, that should be on the order of -8 Str.

But, well, I don't think people want to play that.

 

[BryonD]

Is it just me, or do discussions of favored class generally go in one of two directions:

A) Race A has the wrong favored class

or

B) Favored class is not very important
B alternate) We ignore favored classes

Yes, the flavored class sets a flavor perception. But mechanically it is no big deal. Heck, gnomes make BETTER illusionists now. A gnome illusionist 10 now is the same as a gnome illusionist 10 before, with an extra +1 to DCs. That tiny perk will make people go to gnome illusionists more than the shift to bard FC will drive them away. Ok, so you won't see any gnome Ill9/rogue1 chars anymore. You can still see gnome Ill5/rogue5 or gnome bard9 (with lots if illusion spells)/rogue1.

My point being, it really does not make a big difference.

Though if this moves us away from the tinker gnome thing, then I think I'll change my mind away from "who cares?" to "this is the best change in 3.5".

 

[Urbannen]

Well, two things. First, the races of D&D bear little resemblance to anything in particular... dwarves in several myths turned to stone in sunlight, frex. Gnomes were more like brownies than anything else, and dwarves not much different.

I agree that bards seem to fit the traditional D&D role of gnomes. Well rounded, good illusion spells, and freeform magic? Yeah.


As for strength... strength of halflings and gnomes is simply silly. A halfling male is 35 lb. on average... about 1/5 the size of a human male. Even conservatively speaking, that should be on the order of -8 Str.

But, well, I don't think people want to play that.

Will, I agree with everything you've said here. The D&D races are loosely based on mythology, but they are essentially just that - races specific to the D&D game. Given that, a D&D race can have just about any favored class that the designers feel like. Why not bard? Elven wizard makes little sense, either (oh excuse me from frolicking in the woods while I go hunt some deer so I can turn their skin into parchment, and then I have to go find some gems and special herbs so I can make special ink, and while everyone else is frolicking I will be inside my treehouse writing into a book of spells that I or some unnamed elvish underclass artisan had to construct. I will later spend several hours every week studying so that I can cast spells. Also I will have to lug said book around wherever the gentle side of my chaos should lead me to wander, and ouch does my back hurt from frolicking with this book strapped to it. ) Surely sorcerer would have made more sense as favored class for elves. So why not bards for gnomes?

I had that cute oversized book "Gnomes" when I was a kid. Those gnomes were not Small. I would say that were Tiny at the largest. They did speak to animals, but they didn't cast spells (I don't think.) I don't think they would have made a very good PC race. But since people like to have a lots of flavors to choose from, Gary Gygax decided to throw in a humanoid called a gnome. Why not? All this to say, go gnome bards!

 

[Tonguez]

As for strength... strength of halflings and gnomes is simply silly. A halfling male is 35 lb. on average... about 1/5 the size of a human male. Even conservatively speaking, that should be on the order of -8 Str.

Not really unless you take it that gnome anatomy is just scaled down human anatomy. I've always been more inclined to beleive that Gnomes etc have entirely different muscular structures so that they pack on more and denser muscle than humans do and consequently are much stronger than a human of the same size would be.