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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Rich Baker on Gnomes in 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="ferratus" data-source="post: 3986152" data-attributes="member: 55966"><p>I wasn't going to have Druids in my campaign setting originally, but I was increasingly intrigued by the Feywild, so I think I'm going to have to cobble some up. I want a divine controller, so I'll probably end up modifying the wizard class or the fey pact warlock. I didn't like the way that 3e made druids the shapechanging class. I prefered them in 2e, where they were more about making the natural world fight for you and calling down lightning. </p><p></p><p>I guess my response to the people who don't like that 4e is changing the fluff of D&D is that there is more reasons than just fixing the rules to update editions. I like some of the changes, dislike some others, but that pretty much means I'll be houseruling things even if I didn't switch editions. I've already determined that I want lead dragons rather than adamantine dragons and will not have an elemental chaos.</p><p></p><p>With any homebrew campaign setting you pretty much have to make changes even if you like a particular edition. For example, if you don't like the underdark but like drow elves, you might be shipping them off to the Shadowfell, writing out the Shadar-kai, and turning them into a necromancy culture. Lolth's demonweb, instead of representing treachery refers to her habit of ensnaring and consuming souls trapped in its strands. Will I have to make new stats for Lolth and build a few dark elven necromancers? Will I have to cobble something together if necromancers aren't available before I need it? Probably. But that's all part of playing the game. If all I was going to get is a wizard with a few negative energy attacks, I could do add that in myself. </p><p></p><p>I'm not really buying the argument that prior editions suited you homeworld perfectly. There is simply too much to be fussy about. I have several characters that will be suited better under the new rules, and I can't think of any that would be better served under the old ones. For example, I had a paladin with a background as a homeless street urchin. Taking a couple levels in rogue was pointless because a) you couldn't pick locks decently anyway and b) it made you a less effective fighter. With 4e I can play a paladin who can pick locks and bypass dungeon traps, so somebody else can play a warlock or ranger and we won't be hit by every trap in the mud sorcerers tomb.</p><p></p><p>The only way that your campaign world suit a prior edition perfectly well is if you never tinkered with the mechanics and flavor text at all. If you aren't willing to adopt 4e because of the work of tinkering with the setting or mechanics would put you off, then how many 3.5 products were you going to buy? Have we not reached the point of supplementary sourcebooks for 3.5 that the well is pretty much bone dry? So if not supplements, then there would have to be either pre-made adventures and various regional books of existing campaign worlds. Neither of those seem to be making the cost of their ink back. </p><p></p><p>Pre-made adventures have never sold well (even Dungeon was less popular than Dragon). so while I'm sympathetic to people who find nothing wrong with 3.5 edition and would just like to see more adventures come out for it, there are not enough of you to really sustain it for the next few years.</p><p></p><p>The other fans who are upset about the fluff changes of 4e are probably people who enjoy a certain campaign setting. However, the campaign setting books have come out, so really you would have to be interested in regional sourcebook or player's optional rulebooks. To be someone interested in such a regional sourcebook you have to be a fan of the setting, and a fan of a particular region of the setting. Not something deeply encouraging for a FLGS to stock in their store. </p><p></p><p>On the other hand, there are people like me who are annoyed at many of the fluff and rules status quo, and are thus willing to give a new edition a try. If D&D was a religion instead of a hobby with customers to satisfy, the cries of heresy would be a little more believable.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ferratus, post: 3986152, member: 55966"] I wasn't going to have Druids in my campaign setting originally, but I was increasingly intrigued by the Feywild, so I think I'm going to have to cobble some up. I want a divine controller, so I'll probably end up modifying the wizard class or the fey pact warlock. I didn't like the way that 3e made druids the shapechanging class. I prefered them in 2e, where they were more about making the natural world fight for you and calling down lightning. I guess my response to the people who don't like that 4e is changing the fluff of D&D is that there is more reasons than just fixing the rules to update editions. I like some of the changes, dislike some others, but that pretty much means I'll be houseruling things even if I didn't switch editions. I've already determined that I want lead dragons rather than adamantine dragons and will not have an elemental chaos. With any homebrew campaign setting you pretty much have to make changes even if you like a particular edition. For example, if you don't like the underdark but like drow elves, you might be shipping them off to the Shadowfell, writing out the Shadar-kai, and turning them into a necromancy culture. Lolth's demonweb, instead of representing treachery refers to her habit of ensnaring and consuming souls trapped in its strands. Will I have to make new stats for Lolth and build a few dark elven necromancers? Will I have to cobble something together if necromancers aren't available before I need it? Probably. But that's all part of playing the game. If all I was going to get is a wizard with a few negative energy attacks, I could do add that in myself. I'm not really buying the argument that prior editions suited you homeworld perfectly. There is simply too much to be fussy about. I have several characters that will be suited better under the new rules, and I can't think of any that would be better served under the old ones. For example, I had a paladin with a background as a homeless street urchin. Taking a couple levels in rogue was pointless because a) you couldn't pick locks decently anyway and b) it made you a less effective fighter. With 4e I can play a paladin who can pick locks and bypass dungeon traps, so somebody else can play a warlock or ranger and we won't be hit by every trap in the mud sorcerers tomb. The only way that your campaign world suit a prior edition perfectly well is if you never tinkered with the mechanics and flavor text at all. If you aren't willing to adopt 4e because of the work of tinkering with the setting or mechanics would put you off, then how many 3.5 products were you going to buy? Have we not reached the point of supplementary sourcebooks for 3.5 that the well is pretty much bone dry? So if not supplements, then there would have to be either pre-made adventures and various regional books of existing campaign worlds. Neither of those seem to be making the cost of their ink back. Pre-made adventures have never sold well (even Dungeon was less popular than Dragon). so while I'm sympathetic to people who find nothing wrong with 3.5 edition and would just like to see more adventures come out for it, there are not enough of you to really sustain it for the next few years. The other fans who are upset about the fluff changes of 4e are probably people who enjoy a certain campaign setting. However, the campaign setting books have come out, so really you would have to be interested in regional sourcebook or player's optional rulebooks. To be someone interested in such a regional sourcebook you have to be a fan of the setting, and a fan of a particular region of the setting. Not something deeply encouraging for a FLGS to stock in their store. On the other hand, there are people like me who are annoyed at many of the fluff and rules status quo, and are thus willing to give a new edition a try. If D&D was a religion instead of a hobby with customers to satisfy, the cries of heresy would be a little more believable. [/QUOTE]
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