Rich Baker on the Spellplague and other stuff.

[Steely Dan]

This to me, speaks volumes of the type of play style that the designers are creating for D&D.

You could take out gods in 1st Ed.

 

[catsclaw227]

This to me, speaks volumes of the type of play style that the designers are creating for D&D.

I remember, when we were 14, having a God killing campaign out of Deities & Demigods. And it was fun, but as I matured, so did my campaigns. This isn't going to change for 4e, just like it didn't for 1e, 2e, 3e.

And, "speaks volumes"? Come on, now. I would venture to guess that most (90% or likely even more) people won't have God killing campaigns, and if they did it would be more like the Paizo APs that each ended with an epic Demon/Devil/BBEG/God-like entity being vanquished.

How the designers make the game available to the masses, ie statted Gods (or maybe just avatars), doesn't mean that the game is meant to be played like that. Remember, there is a heric tier and a paragon tier first, and many campaigns will stay within these tiers quite comfortably.

 

[Faraer]

And it is consistent with the way the gods have been portrayed in many Realms novels throughout all editions (with some exceptions).

It's the Avatar novels that are the exception: the rest of Realmslore, including the religious sourcebooks, paints a quite different picture, and it's only recently that Wizards decided to adopt the obvious literary conceit of the Avatar books as the way the gods really are, never mind how incompatible that is with a cosmos in which, for instance, Chauntea is the earth, and how they've acted -- that is, mostly not at all -- down the centuries. The god stats in Faiths and Pantheons are a mere publishing accident: the higher-ups were on a 'crunch is good' kick and insisted the authors add the stats through none of the three wanted to.

I think people are overreaching about what the mentions of god-killing in 4E might mean.

 

[Simon Marks]

Defeating (or thwarting) a God is very different to killing one.

 

[Vradna]

You all make some terribly good points about gods and the way that they have been portrayed over various editions. I remember the 1E/2E shift and all the Assassins that died after Bhaal was killed by Cyric, all to justify the paragraph in the 2E DMG which reasoned away the existence of the Assassin class.

I think that my initial objections is merely a shift in my own perceptions. I don't see anything 'new' I don't know how the rest of you feel, but I find that I am stifling a yawn at the whole 'Realms change' thing happening again. I would rather see something completely new.

 

[outsider]

Such is the fate of all deities in 4e - they want 30th level characters to be able to go take out a god. Seriously.

Alot of people feel like that is a bad thing. Maybe it is. However, I'm not going to simply take it at face value and assume it is a bad thing without a reasonable explanation. Why is it bad to be able to kill a god?

Personally, I think it's a pretty reasonable thing for a max level character to do. Gods should never be mowed down like kobolds, but killing a god is a perfectly fine culmination to a campaign, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[FourthBear]

I myself don't like gods that can be slain by mortals (I also think that people invoking real world mythology grossly overestimate the times that mortals were able to threaten the gods). However, the gods have certainly been "in limits" since the conception of the game. Zagyg in Gygax's own campaign was able to capture not just one but a small herd of gods for his own divine ascendancy. In my own Realms campaign, the Time of Troubles never happened and the gods are significantly more "cosmic". However, there have been far too many prominent releases in the Realms that contradict this to claim that it's anything but non-canon, iMO.

In any case, rules for gods that can be dealt with by mortals don't really bother me overmuch. They're easy to ignore and the more cosmic gods don't really need much rules representation.

 

[Walking Dad]

In any case, rules for gods that can be dealt with by mortals don't really bother me overmuch. They're easy to ignore and the more cosmic gods don't really need much rules representation.

Yeah, who cares, if they give us more options. If you don't like killing gods, than don't kill them!
If you want to kill the gods, you got at least some rules for it.

 

[Steely Dan]

Why is it bad to be able to kill a god?

Exactly, in fantasy literature it happens quite a bit.

 

[Walking Dad]

Exactly, in real world mythology and fantasy literature it happens quite a bit.

But by Lovecraft they only try and try and try...
But you should get stats to die trying!!! (without GM Fiat)