Richard's SAGAized D&D

[richardgobble]

Hello all,

I am currently working on a rule document (for personal use only) that combines D&D, Star Wars SAGA, Elements of Magic, and a little Iron Heroes thrown in for good measure.

My goal: To make a version of the game that I think is cool. This is an important point. This is not designed for mass consumption at all. It is simply my biased view of what the fantasy rpg should be.

I am starting this thread for two reasons:

1. Feedback from experienced gamers is always a good thing. I look forward to any comments you might have.

2. If anyone is looking for house-ruling ideas, please feel free to farm them from here.

By the way, I must give due respect to Flynn who wrote Fantasy Concepts. Great product and already does a lot of what I want my version to do. Thanks Flynn!

I will be posting topics in this thread one at a time over the next who-knows-how-long.

 

[ObiAndy]

I'd be very interested to see what you come up with. I too have been trying to find my own "perfect" system, going so far as to start working on some using the WFRPv2 core rules as a basis. I may start my own thread here to get some feedback.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Cool idea, one comment:
A problem with SW saga that not a lot of people mention is that only a couple of the nobles talents are actually related in anyway to charisma.
You can play a very inspirational noble with a 6 charisma, this just shouldn't be.

If you were to Sagaize D&D something should be done about leadership, inspirational talents/charismatic classes actually needing charisma or at least finding it useful.


Can't wait to see what you come up with!

 

[richardgobble]

The Basic Concept

I want this game to have the best elements of D&D, without any of the things that bug me.

Some things that bug:

1. At higher levels, it becomes much more likely that an attack roll will result in a hit. I feel that two fighters at first level and two fighters at 20th level should have roughly the same likelihood of hitting each other.

2. I do not like "fire and forget" spell systems. I prefer a system that measures power reserve or fatigue. I also dislike the concept of preparing spells.

3. I don't like the distinction between arcane/divine/psionic magic

4. Some things seem needlessly complicated...grapple for instance

5. Too much reliance on multi-classing to get a good character. Little motivation to follow a class up through 20th level.

6. I don't like the assumption that characters have to be outfitted to the nines with +x magic items. This is annoying and boring.

7. Spellcasting classes start owning everyone at higher levels


I will add more as the thread develops

 

[richardgobble]

Cool idea, one comment:
A problem with SW saga that not a lot of people mention is that only a couple of the nobles talents are actually related in anyway to charisma.
You can play a very inspirational noble with a 6 charisma, this just shouldn't be.

If you were to Sagaize D&D something should be done about leadership, inspirational talents/charismatic classes actually needing charisma or at least finding it useful.


Can't wait to see what you come up with!

I have noticed this myself and will be addressing it...in the next post no less!

 

[richardgobble]

3 Base Classes

I am pretty attached to the idea of three base classes.

The Fighter- focuses on combat, combat feats, highest hp, broadest training in weapons and armor, highest BAB bonus, lowest MAB (magical adept bonus), access to TOB style manuvers or some such.

The Expert- focuses on skills, skill tricks and challenges, middle hp, limited training in weapons and armor, middle BAB, middle MAB,

The Mage- focuses on magic, lowest hp, very limited weapon training, lowest BAB, highest MAB,

Differences within each base class will be created through the use of talent trees. If you like Barbarians, then you would play a fighter with several talents from the 'Barbarian" talent tree. Or the "Woodsman outdoor type" talent tree. and so on...

Multiclassing will mostly be about trying to combine key elements of each base class into one character (e.g. a fighter who can cast some spells) rather than trying to get cool elements of two fighting classes. No more Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/ Ranger 3 type things.

Multiclassing will cause the players to lose access to the "best stuff" of each classes higher levels. I am trying to walk the line between encouraging multi-classing and discouraging it. In the end...I want the most POWERFUL characters to be single class with multiclassing being more about versatility.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Have you checked out The Gneech's Sword & Sorcery Saga system? The thread (with links) is here.

It might be another bunch of options worth perusing, is all.

But anyway, I'm interested in seeing how this develops. A number of your concerns mirror my own (or vice versa) so I am pretty much positively predisposed.

 

[DreamChaser]

I don't want this to sound dismissive or divisive...it is not intended as such...

Honestly, though, it sounds like you are not creating a new form of D&D but a new game altogether. One archetype of D&D since it was first born was the role-based class system. Whether a magic user, a mage, or a wizard, the arcane spellcaster was designed to be artillery guy who sits in back cause he's too weak to be on the front line.

It does sound like an interesting game, though.

DC

 

[richardgobble]

I don't take it as dismissive at all. And you are right...the game will be very different from traditional D&D. But then...so was 2nd edition, 3rd edition, and apparently 4th edition.

On to tonight's topic: Class bonus to BAB

For the record, I am intending everything to scale according to level. BAB, MAB, Skills, Defenses. All of it.

I approached it from the perspective of "what numbers on the d20 do I want to hit and miss on?" I started with two fighters fighting naked (that is without any armor). Looking at just the fighter's BAB vs. his own Reflex Defense (without considering bonuses), I wanted the fighter to hit on a roll of 11 at any level. 50% chance at 1st level....50% chance at 10th level.

Now...I realize that different builds will change these numbers (perhaps even quite a bit)...but I stand by the notion that if the basic math is well-balanced, then it will keep the uber-optimized builds at least somewhat closer to reasonable.

Important point: The class bonus to BAB represents combat training before the character became a heroic adventurer or whatnot...therefore, it can only be gained at first level. All classes will have some first level stuff that isn't available to multi-classers. This will help keep multi-classing from becoming a path to insanely over-powered builds.

The expert will receive no class bonus to BAB...but he also advances by level to a BAB of 20 by 20th level.

The mage will start without any weapon proficiencies at all...making necessary the burning of a feat in order to not be at -4 to hit. If this feat is taken, then the mage will be in line with the expert in his likelihood to hit.

 

[richardgobble]

Armor: AC , DR or something elese entirely?

Problem: Without the assumption of tons of magic items, BAB will outpace AC at higher levels, making it almost impossible to miss your enemy.

Fix: Use Reflex Defense to determine how hard it is to hit someone, and DR to represent the armor's abilty to deflect damage.

Problem: Armor as DR doesn't work so well across different levels...not to mention the fact that the AC system combined with hitpoints already represents everything that DR might try to acomplish.

Hmmm....

I thought hard about this for days. I read long hateful threads about why AC is better than DR and vice-versa. Then I came up with an idea that I like:

It is a little complicated so I will put it in a new post.