Riddle me this: How often do you use riddles?

[Ralif Redhammer]

I rarely use riddles. When I do, it’s either because they’re in a module I’m running, or I use them as part of an optional section of the adventure. If I can help it, I never put the goal of the adventure behind a riddle. I generally treat them like bonus content – if you get it, you can take a shortcut or get access to some good treasure.

One thing I’ve discovered is that, invariably, someone will come up with the answer in the first five minutes of discussion, but discount it and go down some other rabbit hole. Every time!

 

[Umbran]

The same thing I do when the players cannot beat a combat encounter, figure out a plot, find the way to the destination location or fail at a social encounter: we keep playing.

That's glib, I'm afraid.

I raise the point because in the classic examples (from which we take the use of riddles in our fantasy) the thing that comes next after failing the riddle is... TPK. If the Fellowship doesn't figure out the riddle at the gates of Moria, the monster in the pond eats them, or the forces of Saruman catch up with them, kill them, and take the Ring - the party hit the riddle as a roadblock to their last hope for progress already. If they don't get the riddle, they have no further way forward.

Or, even more classical - the Sphinx eats you if you don't get the riddle.

What we get here is that a particular riddle shouldn't be central to the plot in an RPG, like it usually is in a work of fiction. It is a trope of fiction we can't use as normally presented.

 

[CleverNickName]

What we get here is that a particular riddle shouldn't be central to the plot in an RPG, like it usually is in a work of fiction. It is a trope of fiction we can't use as normally presented.

Exactly. Some fantasy tropes just don't work very well in a tabletop game format, and roadblock riddles are one of them. That doesn't mean you can't/shouldn't use riddles in your games, you just need to adjust your expectations a bit.

Divination spells are my favorite way to use riddles. Instead of giving out answers on a silver platter, you can just give them a riddle or puzzle that should point them in the right direction. If your warlock has the invocation that lets him speak with the dead at will, you should keep a few riddles in your pocket just for him.

 

[lluewhyn]

Riddles are a good part of fantasy stories, but I don't think riddles make good 'challenges' in a roleplaying game.

....
With riddles, you can't have anything like that. Effectively the game stops, until players have solved it. Remember that scene from the first Lord of the Rings movie? Where they had to open the door to the Mines of Moria, but had to solve a riddle? They party stopped and could only progress once they had solved it. This is boring and frustrating during game play.

Have you read this?
https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=680

 

[Li Shenron]

That's glib, I'm afraid.

I raise the point because in the classic examples (from which we take the use of riddles in our fantasy) the thing that comes next after failing the riddle is... TPK. If the Fellowship doesn't figure out the riddle at the gates of Moria, the monster in the pond eats them, or the forces of Saruman catch up with them, kill them, and take the Ring - the party hit the riddle as a roadblock to their last hope for progress already. If they don't get the riddle, they have no further way forward.

Or, even more classical - the Sphinx eats you if you don't get the riddle.

What we get here is that a particular riddle shouldn't be central to the plot in an RPG, like it usually is in a work of fiction. It is a trope of fiction we can't use as normally presented.

Who said that I make my riddles central to the plot? You just assumed that, but doing so is the most stupid way to use a riddle. Or a locked door. Or a deadly-level combat encounter. Or whatever. And yet when talking about riddles or locked doors, everyone assumes they MUST be won or the whole game is lost, then it's no wonder why people reach the conclusion that they cannot work.

"Keep playing" is not glib, it exactly means that the riddle (or anything) should not be placed in a way that failure becomes a showstopper. There is always another way to continue, maybe a more expensive or more risky way, but there is. And even when there isn't (likely because the party has already failed at other ways) in the very worst case a quest can be botched but the game goes on.

 

[delericho]

Exactly. Some fantasy tropes just don't work very well in a tabletop game format, and roadblock riddles are one of them.

This.

Who said that I make my riddles central to the plot? You just assumed that, but doing so is the most stupid way to use a riddle. Or a locked door. Or a deadly-level combat encounter. Or whatever.

Agreed. In general it's a bad idea to have any challenge in the adventure that must be overcome or the game folds - because that will be the precise moment that the players' dice go cold, or they suffer a collective mind blank, or whatever.

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

It's sort of already been said about the pros and cons. For myself I tend to save riddles strictly for providing hints or extra information about other challenges, rather than making the riddle itself the challenge. I means that solving the riddle remains useful, but does not bring the game to a screeching halt if the players dont quite get it. In the rare case I'd consider making a riddle the actual challenge, I'd allow rolls to provide hints at the solution, or possibly the solution if it was good enough.

That said, I'd either have the players collectively agree that they are pooling knowledge out of character that their characters are all sharing, or require a successful skill check on the part of a character to solve the riddle regardless of which player comes up with the answer. For the same reason I dont require a barbarian player to benchpress a couch for a strength check, I'd not allow the same illiterate barbarian with no skill proficiencies in knowledge and an int ot 8 to be incredibly clever just because his player has a ph.d. in folklore or cryptography. While lucky dice rolls happen, a character's ability scores should matter.

 

[lluewhyn]

I still remember a 3.X adventure called "The Ettin's Riddle" where the key aspect of the riddle was it was using the Player's Handbook description of a Cleric to guess the answer, which was related to a Cleric somehow offending their deity and being turned into an Ettin in penance. I read the adventure and thought I'd pass. A year or two later, when one of the other players takes a turn DMing, he finds the adventure and decides to run it.......

We still laugh about it to this day.

 

[Imaculata]

What we get here is that a particular riddle shouldn't be central to the plot in an RPG, like it usually is in a work of fiction. It is a trope of fiction we can't use as normally presented.

Totally agreed.

When I use riddles in my campaigns, they are usually a bonus for the players to discover. Not that a riddle can't lead to discoveries that are very important to the plot, but I always make sure riddles are optional. I don't want my players to TPK because my riddle sucks.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I tend not to use riddles much unless I am running a published adventure. My players seem to find them completely impossible (if I've designed them) or pointlessly easy (if they are from a published source).

https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=680

I usually get "I've heard this one before - Mellon" the instant the riddle appears.​