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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NanocTheCivilized" data-source="post: 3439034" data-attributes="member: 24389">Read the books. Trolls have a 10x10 Space/Reach. Rust Monsters have 5x5. AMF is a 10' radius emanation which is centred on the caster and moves with him/her. Check page 307 in the DMG - assuming a medium (5x5) caster there is room for a maximum of 1 troll and 7 rust monsters, plus the caster in the AMF area of effect. The rust monsters must move at the speed of the caster or they leave the AMF, so running away shouldn't be a problem. If the party scatter then only one member can be attacked by the AMF group at a time. The rest can throw alchemist's fire, shoot arrows, throw rocks or tanglefoot bags etc to enable a slowly moving tank to escape. Then the party works out a better plan that does not rely on buffs and returns to defeat the enemy.And as for setting traps "simply delaying the inevitable" - that just reeks of defeatism. True, a trap on its own will probably not defeat the enemy, but it can disrupt their formation so that the party can attack (and that AMF formation is so beautifully grouped). It's also a chance for the party rogue to shine - to use Disable Device proactively for once.In any case, the trolls/rust monster combination was merely an example. No. I do feel that some groups rely on them too much, to the detriment of creative play and intelligent tactics. In the end - far from always working - this will eventually fail (unless the DM is unimaginative and uncreative).Well, you're right to say Dispel is worse - mainly because it brings the game to a shuddering halt while everyone works out which buffs no longer work and what their bonuses now are. AMF is simpler in that it stops them all, so there's less arithmetic to do - the PCs just use their innate abilities only, which are right there on the character sheet.Withdrawal is a tactic intelligent monsters faced by a buffed party should use whenever possible - and a smart opponent ought to have a prepared escape route for just this eventuality. This is good, because it forces the players to come up with a plan to trap or contain the enemy before starting an attack.Of course they are - and the DM should be using them too. Nor did I suggest this. The point is that a party such as described earlier in the thread - which expects to buff, teleport in, fight the monster, and teleport out again - can be forced to think more creatively (and thus be more challenged and have more fun) by the occasional use of a spell or tactic which makes them stop and think - AMF is only one option, and I mentioned it only as an example.Nanoc</blockquote>

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