Ritual Casting by Tier Thoughts

[SkidAce]

Some people have expressed that they feel it is too easy for a non-caster type class to pick up ritual casting with just one feat.

What if the classes that don't get ritual casting for free at the begining had to spend a feat for each tier of play? (i.e. new feats for Paragon Ritual Casting, and Epic Ritual Casting)

This way you could have a warrior type that dabbles in rituals, or commits totally by getting all the feats.

If you felt that this gives to much away for free to the casters, you could rule that they only got the Heroic Ritual Casting for free, and have to spend feats to get the higher abilities.

This could simulate the wizard that dabbles in rituals, from the master of rituals. (who would have had to spend 2 extra feats)

Just a random thought...feel free to critique. I have not even implemented this in my world yet.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The downside is its very feat intensive and nobody is likely to spend 3 feats that way. From a "fluff" point of view I can see where you're coming from and it probably would be more thematic. Overall probably most non-casters that take ritual casting are mostly interested in utility rituals etc that are heroic tier anyway. There will be the occasional player though that wants to play a martial PC that's expert in magic or something and he'd be hurt by doing this (consider such characters are already putting ability score points in off stats).

I'm thinking maybe there could be some sort of custom feat that gives heroic rituals plus some related benefit that would work for the "I just want to be able to cast Enchant an Item" dwarven weaponcrafter and gives him some other minor bonus that is going to be worth more to him than being able to cast some epic ritual he could care less about and won't even buy anyway.

 

[the Jester]

Why not just take a multiclass wizard, cleric, etc. feat instead?

I like that non-casters can gain access to rituals. I think it's very cool. Personally, I think restricting it is unnecessary and I wouldn't care to do so. If you do want to do it, I wouldn't tie it into feats- it makes it a very expensive proposition. Maybe find some other way to 'cost' it.

 

[SkidAce]

Good inputs. I guess my thinking was along the lines of easy to get Heroic stuff, but takes commitment to get more than that, especially if you started as a non-caster.

Jester, I considered the multiclass factor. I think it fits in perfectly, if you mc into wixard, you would also get the heroic level rituals free. So same cost "1 feat for heroic, pay more for anything above and beyond"

I am not set on doing it, it was more of an offer of a possible solution for those who felt non casters got all rituals too easy.

So if you feel the feats are too costly (my players felt it was worth it if that was your concept, especially if you started as a non caster) what other "resource" could be used to provide a "gradient" of availability, instead of all for one?

 

[the Jester]

So if you feel the feats are too costly (my players felt it was worth it if that was your concept, especially if you started as a non caster) what other "resource" could be used to provide a "gradient" of availability, instead of all for one?

I don't know. Maybe an alternate solution would be to consider "non-casters" lower level than they actually are for ritual purposes, e.g. a 10th level warlord counts as 5th level for ritual purposes? Of course, then they can't use level-appropriate abilities... I dunno.

 

[Garthanos]

Wizards get to learn free rituals and dont have buy the original feat...
Most non-wizards building there characters as part of a group wont bother if they know there is a wizard to rely on... unless its really strongly a part of there characer concept ... and even then if they do... probably aren't as good at it as wizards... if they spend the resources to have it... I say let them have it. The need to learn arcana and take a ritual caster feat (unless they multi-classed)

I am busy looking for ways to encourage rituals like making feats to reduce the cost or casting time of some of them. ... restricting them is the opposite of my goals so that taints my perception a little.

 

[SkidAce]

Garthanos, what would your reaction be if as a wizard you had to spend more feats to gain access to Paragon and Epic rituals? (assuming that noncasters would have to spend three for full access)

 

[Garthanos]

Hmm that makes it more of a cultural change intended to represent something in your gameworld... and makes higher level ritualists more special... It is potentially taking a little away from the Wizard/Cleric. (depending on whether you end up even playing higher tiers not everybody does). While it is a small take away it wierdly bothers me less.... one thought is to give an extra boon to compensate anybody taking rituals (you have gimped the ritual caster feat make it just a touch more useful)

There are lower grade ritualists already possible the special talent who has the gift or narrow understanding that allows mastery of a focused set of rituals but not all rituals in general. (Dragon Marks skin em however you like).

For me being a higher grade ritualist might be you took the feat to have your rituals based on one skill only .. or the the feat I have been considering to make your lower casting time rituals take a minute instead of 10 minutes.

In fact add in some specials with the access feats for the higher grade tiers and you have a deal.

 

[SkidAce]

Good points. Hmm let me think on it. I have a business trip so it might be a few days.

Thanks.