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*Dungeons & Dragons
ritual casting overpowered?
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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 6740726" data-attributes="member: 45197"><p>Hiya!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Wow...like I've said in multiple threads over the last few weeks, my experience differs <em>vastly</em> from yours.</p><p></p><p>First..and again I have to point this out... <em>FEATS ARE OPTIONAL</em>. That' said, <em>if</em> you are using feats, you WILL have to adjust some 'power gaming shenanigans'. You have no choice. The game is NOT designed around the inclusion of Feats or Multiclassing, or any other rule listed as "optional". Yes, I'm sure the designers did try and take them into consideration when they could, but I'd also bet that if it came down to "which one do we choose, core or Feat, as the base ruling?"...that they chose core every single time. As soon as the DM starts adding in these optional things...he/she will have to make adjustments to fit his or her game. A DM that cart blanche just says "Yeah, use them as is", and then does nothing to adjust all the things in the core rules that may end up being too much/little for his campaign..., well, he needs to work on the "balancing house rules" aspect of being a DM.</p><p></p><p>Anyway...so you're using Feats or not. The Ritual thing is pretty cool. It is useful. In my campaign it never became a problem.</p><p></p><p>I also don't understand how or why your DM is just ignoring <em>everything</em> that could be bad with regards to all that stuff you said. I mean, yeah, you can breath water. Great! You all jump into the ocean to search for that sunken pirate ship...and now the Barbarian with his two handed sword can't swing it. The paladin in full plate sinks to the bottom...could be really bad if he falls off a ledge/cliff and sinks 500' down! Oh, and they're exploring and suddenly are attacked by a half-dozen bull-sharks? Looks like the sharks are going to have a feast! If your DM just says "Oh, you have water breathing, so depth, temperature, casting spells, talking, walking, swimming, dodging, etc are all ignored"...then all I have to say is...I'm glad they aren't my DM.</p><p></p><p>Telepathic link? Awesome...except that the spell says "psychically linked". As DM, I'd rule that that pretty much means they are treated as "one mind". So, if ONE of them fails a charm save...ALL of them are charmed. If one of them takes 19 psychic damage, they ALL take 19 psychic damage. Hell, if I was feeling particularly nasty, if one of them 'dies' (drops to 0hp), they ALL have to make a death save. But that's me. And I'm kind of a hard ass about that...but it makes sense to me that if everyone is sharing one mind, that they kind of form a "symbiotic" type relationship.</p><p></p><p>What's this about "someone to spring traps for them"? I'm not sure what spell you're referring to. If you're thinking about Unseen Servant, you have to know the trap is there to begin with, and it won't spring traps that "go off" when you cross it (ex: a magic glyph on the floor, or a pit trap). If it's opening a door that you think may be trapped, sure. If it's trapped. If it's not, it just opens a door for you. So what? Mage hand or an actual party member can do that. If your DM just has "traps" do nothing other than single, specific, targeted effects with no effect on their surroundings...well, again, "i'm glad they aren't my DM". In my games, a trapped chest can be many things. From the simple poison needle trap (were Unseen Servant <em>is</em> really useful!...if the chest isn't locked, of course), up to things like rocks falling from the ceiling, fireball traps, stone slabs moving to block the door/entrance to the room, etc. In short, if the PC's don't mind the risk of not having treasure...sure, use Unseen Servant all you want. No skin off my teeth. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>The bottom line is this: Ritual castings are nice. With the reduction in the number of 'spells' a caster can bring to bare each day in 5e, the addition of being able to cast certain spells as a "ritual" helps balance that out a bit. We were testing out Feats in our last campaign, where PC's hit level 6 at the highest, iirc (after about 8 months or so of play). The Valor Bard took it. He used it to cast Leomunds Tiny Hut. It was nice and comfortable for them. Until that one night at the base of the Granite Mountains, when that stone giant decided it made a great place to sit down on to wait out the night. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> The giant didn't look like he was going to leave by the time it ran out, and anything and anybody underneath it was going to get smooshed into a fine PC-paste like substance! It was fun watching the players try and figure out how to move far enough away from the giant to not get squished, and then plan on running away as fast as possible once the hut blinked out of existence. The ensuing giant chase was nail-biting (the PC's were about 2nd to 4th level at the time), and one PC was dropped to below 0 by a single critical rock throw! They regrouped, then came back for revenge. They succeeded, barely, but that only did one thing: make the stone giant clan that lived in the area instantly hostile to the PC's. Many close calls later, the PC's are now a bit paranoid about venturing into those rocky areas...which just so happens to be the area they need to go into, of course! :evil: ...so, one "overpowered use of a ritual spell" has pretty much replaced a potentially very valuable ally with a potentially very deadly enemy. Yay overuse of Ritual spells! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>This post is getting long. So I'll end it here. Rituals are not unbalanced at all, if your DM runs any sort of decently adjudicated campaign. If he/she just uses the world as a "MMO-Style Stomping Ground" for PC's do use their cool powers to kill stuff with no consequences other than resource depletion....well, it's not a problem with the Ritual ability (of Feat)...</p><p></p><p>^_^</p><p></p><p>Paul L. Ming</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pming, post: 6740726, member: 45197"] Hiya! Wow...like I've said in multiple threads over the last few weeks, my experience differs [I]vastly[/I] from yours. First..and again I have to point this out... [I]FEATS ARE OPTIONAL[/I]. That' said, [I]if[/I] you are using feats, you WILL have to adjust some 'power gaming shenanigans'. You have no choice. The game is NOT designed around the inclusion of Feats or Multiclassing, or any other rule listed as "optional". Yes, I'm sure the designers did try and take them into consideration when they could, but I'd also bet that if it came down to "which one do we choose, core or Feat, as the base ruling?"...that they chose core every single time. As soon as the DM starts adding in these optional things...he/she will have to make adjustments to fit his or her game. A DM that cart blanche just says "Yeah, use them as is", and then does nothing to adjust all the things in the core rules that may end up being too much/little for his campaign..., well, he needs to work on the "balancing house rules" aspect of being a DM. Anyway...so you're using Feats or not. The Ritual thing is pretty cool. It is useful. In my campaign it never became a problem. I also don't understand how or why your DM is just ignoring [I]everything[/I] that could be bad with regards to all that stuff you said. I mean, yeah, you can breath water. Great! You all jump into the ocean to search for that sunken pirate ship...and now the Barbarian with his two handed sword can't swing it. The paladin in full plate sinks to the bottom...could be really bad if he falls off a ledge/cliff and sinks 500' down! Oh, and they're exploring and suddenly are attacked by a half-dozen bull-sharks? Looks like the sharks are going to have a feast! If your DM just says "Oh, you have water breathing, so depth, temperature, casting spells, talking, walking, swimming, dodging, etc are all ignored"...then all I have to say is...I'm glad they aren't my DM. Telepathic link? Awesome...except that the spell says "psychically linked". As DM, I'd rule that that pretty much means they are treated as "one mind". So, if ONE of them fails a charm save...ALL of them are charmed. If one of them takes 19 psychic damage, they ALL take 19 psychic damage. Hell, if I was feeling particularly nasty, if one of them 'dies' (drops to 0hp), they ALL have to make a death save. But that's me. And I'm kind of a hard ass about that...but it makes sense to me that if everyone is sharing one mind, that they kind of form a "symbiotic" type relationship. What's this about "someone to spring traps for them"? I'm not sure what spell you're referring to. If you're thinking about Unseen Servant, you have to know the trap is there to begin with, and it won't spring traps that "go off" when you cross it (ex: a magic glyph on the floor, or a pit trap). If it's opening a door that you think may be trapped, sure. If it's trapped. If it's not, it just opens a door for you. So what? Mage hand or an actual party member can do that. If your DM just has "traps" do nothing other than single, specific, targeted effects with no effect on their surroundings...well, again, "i'm glad they aren't my DM". In my games, a trapped chest can be many things. From the simple poison needle trap (were Unseen Servant [I]is[/I] really useful!...if the chest isn't locked, of course), up to things like rocks falling from the ceiling, fireball traps, stone slabs moving to block the door/entrance to the room, etc. In short, if the PC's don't mind the risk of not having treasure...sure, use Unseen Servant all you want. No skin off my teeth. ;) The bottom line is this: Ritual castings are nice. With the reduction in the number of 'spells' a caster can bring to bare each day in 5e, the addition of being able to cast certain spells as a "ritual" helps balance that out a bit. We were testing out Feats in our last campaign, where PC's hit level 6 at the highest, iirc (after about 8 months or so of play). The Valor Bard took it. He used it to cast Leomunds Tiny Hut. It was nice and comfortable for them. Until that one night at the base of the Granite Mountains, when that stone giant decided it made a great place to sit down on to wait out the night. :) The giant didn't look like he was going to leave by the time it ran out, and anything and anybody underneath it was going to get smooshed into a fine PC-paste like substance! It was fun watching the players try and figure out how to move far enough away from the giant to not get squished, and then plan on running away as fast as possible once the hut blinked out of existence. The ensuing giant chase was nail-biting (the PC's were about 2nd to 4th level at the time), and one PC was dropped to below 0 by a single critical rock throw! They regrouped, then came back for revenge. They succeeded, barely, but that only did one thing: make the stone giant clan that lived in the area instantly hostile to the PC's. Many close calls later, the PC's are now a bit paranoid about venturing into those rocky areas...which just so happens to be the area they need to go into, of course! :evil: ...so, one "overpowered use of a ritual spell" has pretty much replaced a potentially very valuable ally with a potentially very deadly enemy. Yay overuse of Ritual spells! ;) This post is getting long. So I'll end it here. Rituals are not unbalanced at all, if your DM runs any sort of decently adjudicated campaign. If he/she just uses the world as a "MMO-Style Stomping Ground" for PC's do use their cool powers to kill stuff with no consequences other than resource depletion....well, it's not a problem with the Ritual ability (of Feat)... ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]
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