Ritual Master (for faster rituals)

[WhatGravitas]

All this talk about rituals and how to cast them faster made me think, so I tried my luck.

[sblock=Some designer thoughts]Rituals have the inherent danger of overshadowing mundane efforts like skills, so there has to be a trade-off. In 3E, spells were limited, making them (sort of) suboptimal in certain circumstances, but the over-abundance of spell slots made this point moot.

4E also wanted to avoid the choice between combat and non-combat abilities and utilised the concept of "siloing" (attacks/utilities/rituals). There is, however, some overlap and interaction, and I feel that players should have the choice to trade attacks against more utilitarian abilities, if wanted, as long as it doesn't cripple them too much.

In 4E, daily powers are very good, but usually, combats don't need them to be won, they mainly make it easier - I reckon as long as you only get average encounters, you can survive with encounter and at-wills only.

This opens up dailies as a resource, without compromising the staying power too much. Additionally, it's a day-to-day choice, so it's not giving up combat versatility, only gaining the ability to re-purpose it.[/sblock]

Daily powers are a potential resource, hence I created the following feat:

Ritual Master
Prerequisites: Ritual caster
Benefit: With a standard action and an Arcana check (DC 10 + 1/2 the daily attack's level), you can expend a daily attack and a healing surge. If you do this, until the end of your next turn, you can cast a single ritual with a casting time of 10 minutes or less and a level equal or lower than the expended power's level as a standard action with a -5 penalty on all skill checks affecting the ritual.

Bear in mind that's more of a design idea - but I'm interested in opinions nevertheless:

1. Is this feat okay in general?
2. What are possible ramifications?
3. Does it overshadow skill users?
4. Should it be bumped to a Paragon tier feat?

Cheers, LT.

 

[erf_beto]

(I had more stuff to say, but my sister's laptop ate my post. Here's what I remember)

Rules wise, it might be fine, though I don't like expanding a resource for the chance of getting something. I like the idea of using daily powers as a resource, even thought of it a couple of times myself. But you got me thinking when you said exchangin attack per utility:

Why not have a ritual caster prepare a ritual instead of a power in a daily or utility slot (of level equal to or less than the power's level, or any other math), the same way a wizard memorize a spell from his spellbook? I mean, a ritual should be time consuming to cast, not something you whip up in a standard action. You can even charge extra gold, healing surges, or a couple of feats (maybe one feat per ritual, or a specific feat for each ritual) to disencourage spamming them...

Anyway, sorry to derail your thread. On with your questions now: it does seem powerfull and, even with all the chancey-ness of it, it's pretty much mandatory to take this feat (just in case...). Though I can see it being more usefull in the Heroic Tier, I think thematicaly, it fits Paragon or Epic (I think there's an epic item in Adventurer's Vault that reduces casting time, also I think there's a wondrous item that works like a ritual - a magic key that "casts" Knock, can't remember; they might be worth a look for comparison). Skill users would fade into the background when you can Knock doors and such, but the high cost and penalties for the caster will make them more reliable, so I don't think that's an issue.

 

[Khaalis]

Overall, I'm not sure how I feel about it. The mechanic is a bit clunky at first read, and I'm really not sure that using a ritual that fast is a good idea. I personally do believe that rituals could use some feat options to improve its use, but what i had been personally thinking of would be feats that were more specialized like some of the 3.5E Magic Item creation meta feats.

For example (off the top of my head):

MASTER RITUAL CASTER
Prerequisites: Ritual Caster, Trained in Arcana or Religion
Benefit: Casting a ritual takes half the time indicated in a ritual’s description.

EFFICIENT RITUAL CASTER
Prerequisites: Master Ritual Caster, Ritual Caster, Trained in Arcana or Religion
Benefit: Casting a ritual costs half the component cost indicated in a ritual’s description.

 

[Grimstaff]

I agree with EB that a feat is too heavy a price to pay for a chance to do this.

I would have it something like:

"Once per day, you can cast a ritual you know as a standard action. The material cost is twice the normal cost listed."

Or somthing to that effect.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I agree with EB that a feat is too heavy a price to pay for a chance to do this.

Well, the way I worded that wasn't the best (lack of sleep does that to you, I guess ), but you had to make a check to expend the power + healing surge at all, i.e. you only give up something, if you actually get to do the ritual.

But the more I think about it, it's probably easier to tweak individual rituals into shorter casting times than to think up a way to do rituals faster.

Especially as the proliferation of rituals may result in really bad interactions.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Dragonblade]

I like your idea. Though I think the one round casting might be a little fast. I came up with some alternate ritual rules for casting in combat also.

Ritual Casting: Standard action

Can only perform minor actions – While using the Ritual Casting action, the only other actions a character can perform are Minor actions.
Combat Advantage – Until the beginning of your next turn, you grant combat advantage.
Provoke Opportunity Attacks – Ritual casting provokes opportunity attacks from adjacent enemies.
Casting time – The default time required to perform a ritual is outlined in the description of the ritual. This time can be reduced by performing skill checks.
Skill check – Make a Moderate difficulty skill check using the key skill specified in the ritual description. If you succeed, the Standard action you spent casting the ritual counts toward the time required to perform the ritual as if you had spent 1 minute performing the ritual. Every 5 points by which you exceed the DC counts as another minute. Once you begin performing a ritual you must continue to use the Ritual Casting action every round until you fulfill the time requirement, at which time the ritual takes effect. Otherwise, the rules for interrupting a ritual apply normally.
Final effect – A completed ritual takes effect at the end of your turn when you have fulfilled all the time and other requirements. Follow the rules under the ritual description as normal. If a skill check is required to determine the effect, make that skill check separately from any skill checks made to reduce the time requirement.
Aid Another – Up to 4 others can assist you in performing the ritual per the Aid Another action. They do not need to know the ritual to assist you.

 

[Undrhil]

I had started a thread over on the Wizards forums where I had started with the idea of basing a class off of casting rituals but that quickly changed to a set of feats. If anyone wants to use them or edit them, I just ask for some small mention somewhere when they are rich and famous ... wait ... no .... rich and famous? Give me money. :-D

Link to the thread: New Class Idea: Ritual Wizard - Wizards Community