Ritual Rule Changes

[Nether Mage Ash]

I love the ritual system, and thing that it is a great addition to the game with all its possibilities for future expansion. I also like the fact that it can be used by anybody, which provides of a sense of mystical-ness of the world which I like.

But I also do not like that it can be used by everybody. To me certain magic types should only be done by those that have certain requirements.

For example, any tom dick or harry can learn to create Magic Items. If he has the Ritual Caster feat and the Enchant Magic Item ritual, and the necessary level and wealth he can make magic items. I don't like that. I personally feel that only magical characters - be they arcane like wizards or divine like clerics - should be able to do stuff like that.

I also think that the really really high potency rituals should be restricted to certain groups and whatnot.

To that end I was thinking of adding an extra mechanic. There are Standard Rituals, which are what rituals are currently, and there are Specialized Rituals, which is a new form of ritual. In addition, rituals are now allowed to have Prerequisites, be it skills, feats or what have your.

Specialized Rituals are rituals that only those that have a certain Class or a certain Feat are able to take. They can be of whatever rank, but if a standard ritual of that type does exist than it will always be of higher level and of higher cost.

Another thing I am thinking about changing is what sort of effects can become rituals. I do not care about the thematic idea of the writers that only non-combat effects can be rituals. To me their can be rituals that cause the sun to explode or asteroids to strike or volcanes to erupt. They would have high level, high cost, and high casting times but they would be rituals and not powers.

I also beleive that the lower timespan of casting can exist. While I understand that rituals cannot be used in combat, or break the point of the game, I do not see a problem with allowing rituals with a 5 minute or even a minute or two casting times to exist. With each round being six seconds it would be only the longest of battles where a minute time ritual could be cast.

One more thing, and this is just a comment. I was thinking of reducing the amount of time it takes to scribe a ritual from 8/16/24 to 4/8/12 or even 2/4/8. I cannot see how this would have much of an inpact as for the most part such scribing would take place in downtime and between the scenes anyway. This would also reduce mastering time to either 4 hours or two hours.

So list of changes.
*Add a Prerequisite category to rituals
*Divide rituals into two Types: Standard and Specialized. Some Specialized Rituals can be cast as Standard but at higher cost, level and time.
*Expand options for what can be considered rituals to include some damage-dealing effects.
*Reduce minimum casting time allowed from ten minutes to 5 minutes, 2 minutes or even 1 minute. Rule must make it not really useful to cast in combat, but time can be reduced.
*A long term project will see the adoption of hundreds or more of the previous editions spells into the new editions rituals. I think that could be done and could make it such a varied option for characters.
*Think about reducing scribing and mastering times.

In addition to the above I will also be removing from the prayer list and spell list some powers and turn them into Rituals. The Level 22 Cloud Chariot is a ritual, as is the Level 22 Mordenkainen's Mansion.

As with everything I post I would very much like your opinions, thoughts, suggesstions and comments. Direct dismissals as useless will be ignored as pointless, meaningless and useless. Constructive criticism will be respected.

 

[Prophet2b]

I would probably agree that some of the rituals could use some prerequisites, not for balance reasons but just to give the spellcasters a little something extra / unique.

But I actually love that any crafter can make a magic item if he is trained properly. It never made sense to me that a wizard would go through all those years of wizarding school just to settle down and pound some metal. That's never sat right with me.

 

[Nether Mage Ash]

Yeah, I'm not doing any of my suggesstions for balance, its all for fluff and theme.

As to your second point, my thoughts on it change depending on what setting I am thinking about. What I mean is that in some settings one need to have magical capabilities before they can create magical items, in others anybody can do it with training. Considering that the rules as written need to be quite broad to fit in any game posibility I understand them not being their.

Basically, what this means, is that in some campaigns I would make Enchant Item have Prerequisite: Spellcaster Class while in others I would not.

What are your thoughts on my other changes and ideas?

 

[mattdm]

But I also do not like that it can be used by everybody. To me certain magic types should only be done by those that have certain requirements.

For example, any tom dick or harry can learn to create Magic Items. If he has the Ritual Caster feat and the Enchant Magic Item ritual, and the necessary level and wealth he can make magic items. I don't like that. I personally feel that only magical characters - be they arcane like wizards or divine like clerics - should be able to do stuff like that.

But a character who has the Ritual Caster feat isn't just any Tom, Dick, or Harry. He's someone with training in Arcana or Religion who has invested further study in the magical arts.

I don't disagree with you completely, though. Particularly, I think there should be certain divine rituals only available to followers of certain gods — but I don't think they should be restricted to clerics.

 

[Nether Mage Ash]

But a character who has the Ritual Caster feat isn't just any Tom, Dick, or Harry. He's someone with training in Arcana or Religion who has invested further study in the magical arts.

I don't disagree with you completely, though. Particularly, I think there should be certain divine rituals only available to followers of certain gods — but I don't think they should be restricted to clerics.

The one feat allowing access to all works right now, but I forsee a time when their will be dozens of feat giving access to subgroups of Rituals. To me the ritual aspect of 4e has so much potential. Take a feat like this:

Ritual Artisan
Prerequisite: something
Benefit: Your understandings of how the world enables you access to Item Craft rituals.

And while right now there are only three - Enchant Item, Disenchant Item and Brew Potion, in time their might be other things like Create Golem, Form Homuclous, Craft Conconction (for alchemy), and so on.

To me Low Level rituals could represent village ceremonies and practices and could be accessed by the Rituals of the Wise One feat which would grant a certain grouping of rituals of low level that benefit towns and communities.

Other rituals could be War Rituals which require a separate feat to take and would enable the gaining of rituals that could call forth thunderstorms of epic proportions, volcanic eruptions, etc. etc.

Other groups of rituals could be created. Some rituals would be covered by the Ritual Caster feat while others would only be accessible if one takes a much narrower feat.

To you second point some rituals could have prerequisites of following a deity, others could have being a Cleric, others could have being a spellcaster, others could have being in a pact, others could have being Elven or Dwarvin or whatever. The prerequisites are their, I would say, so that their can be restrictions on who can get access to certain rituals. But it wouldn't have to be Class, it could be something else.

I don't know if I am making myself clear. When I see rituals I see that they are so awesomely broad and can cover practically anything. I cannot wait for the day when 4e has access to dozens if not scores of supplements enhancing and increasing the number of Rituals.

On another point, can I ask for you thoughts on some of the other points I made in my origonal post.

 

[fuzzlewump]

I think I'll have to agree with mattdm here, the problem only occurs if you imagine in your world every single person using rituals. Feats are meant for player characters and when you write up an NPC they aren't included, so you don't have to worry that every NPC could easily have ritual casting. NPC's have rituals as easily as you want them to have rituals, no easier no harder.

Rituals at your table will only occur (outside of casters) when the players invest two feats in it, so they will clearly have interest in doing so. I know that when I'm building a fighter I don't want to waste two feats if I know we already have a cleric or a wizard who can do the same job for zero feats. But if we don't have a caster, or I just want to be a ritual user, I don't want to have to spend anymore than what the Player's Handbook requires that I spend already.

Now, the possible new rituals you speak of like Create Golem etc. are balanced by the fact that they cost a whole lot of money, both in obtaining it and having the material components for it. If I'm an average fighter, I don't want to waste my hard earned money on some rituals when I could be buying a brand new Frost Sword. I especially don't want to waste more feats than I already have to. In other words, the balance is already there.

I have no problem with specialized rituals so long as all rituals published are standard, and specialized are either custom or augmented standard. If your idea is to make some rituals included in the PHB or any future supplements take more prerequisites, see above.

 

[Propagandroid]

I posted about a different kind of ritual house rule recently, you guys might find it interesting. It's about storing rituals for later...some have compared it to bringing scrolls back to 4e.

 

[Nether Mage Ash]

fuzzlewump,

Well, actually, I do see it that way (that everybody uses rituals). To me low-level rituals are kinda like low magic. They are ceremonies, hedge magic, the lore of wise ones, etc. They are used by small towns to hold back enemies and threats and stuff like that.

Its the higher level rituals that are purely in the realm of the PC - at least in my imagination of the situation.

How is it two feats, its only one - a caster must have the Ritual Caster feat. That is the only feat required. The skills required can be gained various ways without expending a feat slot.

Cost of rituals is something that I won't really change. I mean some of the more basic rituals I will reduce slightly for effect on game world, but in general I think them costing allot of money makes sense.

Since I am not Wizards I very much doubt they will adopt my idea. But if I was then I would say that most books where rituals came in would have a lot of common, standard rituals and a number of rituals with prerequisites. If a book about the Wizard Class or the Cleric Class came out then I would have more Wizard- or Cleric-only rituals in it. The same with the Fighter or whatever classes.

And yeah, my idea was that some rituals should be only usable by some groups - be it for fluff or whatever reasons - while others would be usable by anybody. That low level rituals would be considered low magic and usable by the mundane public while high rituals and potent rituals would be in the realm of PCs and important NPCs.

Prpagandroid,

I like that idea for the ritual. Well, all of it except the optional rule at the end, I think that is too much. But all in all its a useful ability that extends rituals into other realms. But it has a nice limiting factor - it uses healing surges - so that is a nice thing to balance it out in my books.

 

[mattdm]

How is it two feats, its only one - a caster must have the Ritual Caster feat. That is the only feat required. The skills required can be gained various ways without expending a feat slot.

Well, there's the eladrin education racial feature. And paladins get Religion and warlocks get Arcana. Other than that, it's pretty much down to feats, isn't it? If you're Tom Human Fighter, Dick Halfling Rogue, or Harry Elven Ranger, it's two feats.

So that leaves me with a couple of questions and then a comment. First, do you really object to the possibility that high-elven Eladrin who choose to study the appropriate skill and then take Ritual Caster could do high-powered ritual magic? That seems pretty-flavor appropriate to me. Likewise, Warlocks and Paladins seem to fit your "only magical characters" requirement, don't they? (Arguably less-so Paladins, but still, we're not talking about just any paladin.)

And the comment: leaving that aside, probably the best path for someone who wants to get access to ritual castering as a "non-magical" class is to take the cleric or wizard multiclass feat. Presuming you'd allow that for access to your special feats, the restriction probably wouldn't be that onerous in real play.

 

[mattdm]

(double post.)