Rituals - how i would like to see them revised

[UngeheuerLich]

After thinking a lot about rituals, i have come to following conclusion:

Ritual caster feat needs to go the way of mounted combat: not really needed anymore!

Here is my idea how to implement this:

All classes that had ritual caster previously, retain it, and this feat now allows casting rituals a bit faster or cheaper or whatever...

All those classes already gain free rituals at some point in their career.

How do you gain access to rituals now, you ask me?

Each ritual gets a power source associated with it. You can only cast it, if it matches your power source (either through your class, race, or through a multiclass feat, or you need to have at least one power from the same power source that is of at least the level of the ritual.)

This would be a very simple solution, as it would allow all classes that should be able to do associated rituals to do so and classes that had access to rituals before still retain a benefit. Also rituals now are an integrated part of the power source system and won´t feel as an overlay anymore!

prepairing a scroll can only be done with the ritual caster feat and can grant all benefits of having the feat to the reader!

now I go and tell my players^^

 

[Nichwee]

Not sure I like the idea of rituals having a Power Source tbh.

Would mean no one could be an arcane/matial doctor without a multiclass (as I assume 'Healing' Rituals would get Divine sourcing so clerics get them), which sucks if you want to simply be a field medic type person. Ditto no Herbologists (to borrow a Potter term) as Nature rituals would probably be Primal so the Druid has access to them.

I could see rituasls needing a revamp but imo restricting them more is not the answer. Better to allow more access to them, and then make Ritual Caster give a ritual efficiency daily power something like the following.

Ritual Caster
You gain the Ritual Caster power

Ritual Caster - Utility Power
Daily: No Action
Trigger: You perform a ritual you know.
Effect: You may increase the component cost by 20% to reduce the cast time to rounds not minutes. Or you may triple the cast time to cast any non-creation ritual for free.
Special: This power may be used twice per day at Level 16. You may not use this power twice on the same ritual to gain both benefits.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I could easily see heling rituals hving multiple power sources.

I don´t know if rewriting everything to a power helps...

 

[Riastlin]

I dunno, to me I think the problem with rituals isn't so much the restriction on who can cast them but rather with creating situations wherein its both effective and feasible to do so. Obtaining rituals can be expensive, as can casting them. Then, you may not even have many situations wherein a given ritual would be useful, making the expenditure on it seem like a waste.

As such, a lot of the onus falls on the DM to create opportunities to allow rituals to shine, or to allow for creative uses of said rituals, particularly the more expensive ones. On the plus side, my last session (the first of paragon tier) saw the players use more rituals than I think they used all of heroic tier.

 

[Nichwee]

I could easily see heling rituals hving multiple power sources.

I don´t know if rewriting everything to a power helps...

But if you are going to have multiple power sources on a ritual so it can be used by al the peeps who should be able to put it into a build idea you just get back to a "everyone can do these rituals" (i.e. Bloom should be doable by Druids, Clerics, Wizards, Psion - considering the Time Bender PP - so Primal, Divine, Arcane, Psionic => Almost everyone but Martial classes).

And I wasn't suggesting writing rituals as powers, just the idea that the big problem with rituals is cost and time taken limiting usability/flexability.
Thus I suggested making Ritual Caster a feat for a Utility Power (Like Skill Power or Channel Divinity feats) to make rituals easier to fit into your character's repetoire while possibly letting anyone learn rituals without the currrent feat requirement.

 

[Leopard D]

As much as I like the idea of rituals being used more in a campaign, limiting them by assigning each to a power source might not be the best way to address your issue. It reduces the versatility of ritual casting as a whole, and if rituals are so important in your game to change them, then this would create a need for each player to be associated with a different power source.

Also, turning rituals into powers is exactly what the cast times on every ritual are designed to stop. As amazing as it would be to have your team hold off a group of monsters for the 100 rounds needed for you to cast a 10 minute ritual, it simply isn't reasonable.

Instead of forcing certain classes to only use certain rituals, perhaps decide amongst your players that one or two of them will be responsible for ritual casting. It makes those few players feel like they have a special role in the party, as well as gives them an added layer of non-combat versatility and ability that 4e has taken from spell casting classes.

If availability of rituals is the main problem, then I would highly recommend that a reward in an upcoming adventure be an experienced wizard's ritual book that contains a large amount of rituals that you think the players would be excited to obtain. In a campaign that I play in, a reward we received was a magical ritual book that teaches a new ritual to the reader once per week.

If you really want to change 4e's rules on rituals, then that's your prerogative. Personally, I tend to operate on the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" policy. When you as a DM can create an adventure that remedies your frustrations with the often neglected ritual system, then my recommendation would be to do so instead of resorting to changing the rules. I know that I, as a player, would appreciate my character earning something that increases his repertoire rather than everyone just having it all of a sudden.

 

[LostSoul]

This is how I see the expected use of rituals.

DMG, page 27:

RITUALS
While you're disseminating information, think about how rituals might give some advantage to PCs. Divination and scrying rituals can allow characters, especially epic-levle characters, to bypass obstacles to information as easily as they can bypass physical obstacles at those levels. Design your adventures accordingly, paying careful attention to the ritual descriptions in the Player's Handbook. Don't give the characters less than they're entitled to, but don't let them short-circuit your whole adventure by using rituals, either. For instance, the Observe Creature ritual requires the caster to be extremely specific when describing the ritual's intended target. If allowing the ritual to succeed would throw a monkey wrench into your plans for the adventure, you'd be within your rights to rule that the ritual failed to locate the intended target because the caster's description wasn't specific enough. Also, remember that high-level villains have access to the same rituals that the characters do, including wards they can use to protect themselves from scrying attempts.​

(emphasis mine)

To sum up: Information-gathering rituals that might actually change the outcome of the adventure should be squashed by the DM.

DMG, pages 97 - 98:

A CAKEWALK
Whether your characters are higher in level than the adventure intended, or better equipped, or just more inventive and tactically savvy, sometimes they overcome the encounters you throw at them without ever feeling seriously challenged. Fortunately, solving that problem is easy.

You can adjust encounter levels upward using the three techniques described in the previous pages: add monsters, increase monster levels, or substitute monsters. You can also alter terrain to give the monsters a home field advantage and challenge the players' tactical mastery. Watch what your players do and use the same tactic against them.​

(emphasis mine)

To sum up: If the players make smart choices, counter that by making things more difficult.

Couple that with PCs who can buy magic items, treasure awarded by character level - no smart choices will get you extra treasure!, and advice to use "plot twists" (DMG, page 97) that tells you to change the plot on the fly if the players make smart deductions, and you find that using rituals is just a waste of resources you can spend on your PC to get cool new powers.

• You can't use rituals to make encounters easier.
• You can't use rituals to gain information the DM doesn't want you to have.
• You can't use rituals to gain extra treasure.
• You can't use rituals to affect the plot.

What can you do with rituals, then?

• You can make your character less effective by spending resources that could go into magic items.
• You can make your character appear as more of a hero/bad-ass by casting a ritual.
• You can make important statements about who your character is by casting a ritual.

As I see it, you have three options: 1) start changing default assumptions about the game (treasure is not awarded by character level, encounters are not built based on party level, the pre-planned adventure can be short circuited), 2) emphasize the heroic or bad-ass deeds that casting rituals allows you to do, or 3) emphasize how your character relates to moral and ethical features of the game world.

I think your "Power Source" change would work towards option 2. I'd also remove the component cost of casting rituals and assume that characters know all rituals up to their level.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

But if you are going to have multiple power sources on a ritual so it can be used by al the peeps who should be able to put it into a build idea you just get back to a "everyone can do these rituals" (i.e. Bloom should be doable by Druids, Clerics, Wizards, Psion - considering the Time Bender PP - so Primal, Divine, Arcane, Psionic => Almost everyone but Martial classes).

And I wasn't suggesting writing rituals as powers, just the idea that the big problem with rituals is cost and time taken limiting usability/flexability.
Thus I suggested making Ritual Caster a feat for a Utility Power (Like Skill Power or Channel Divinity feats) to make rituals easier to fit into your character's repetoire while possibly letting anyone learn rituals without the currrent feat requirement.

I know that the Problem is time an cost, so I would start restricting access only as a first step.

The second would be allowing everyone, even those who don´t have ritual caster to use them if they meet the requirements.

Third step would be features to reduce time and cost. My Idea was give it to classes that frequently use rituals for free. Those that have ritual caster.

Actually there would be no harm, if you just said: Ritual caster allows you to cast any ritual from any power source.

The other problem, Lost soul mentions, is not only true for rituals. Such advices are never meant for players. It is just normal adventure building. If players find a way to shortcut an adventure seriously, you can sometimes just allow it, or you should set up a poker face, reward them in a certain way but make something up to not let the adventure end now and there.

 

[eriktheguy]

I've been using.

• No ritual caster feat
• Training in one of the appropriate skills is required to use a ritual
• Classes that would gain ritual casting instead may use rituals up to 2 levels higher than them
• (Most) rituals usable as a standard action
• (Most) rituals cost reduced by factor of 5

 

[Rune]

DMG, page 27:

RITUALS
While you're disseminating information, think about how rituals might give some advantage to PCs. Divination and scrying rituals can allow characters, especially epic-levle characters, to bypass obstacles to information as easily as they can bypass physical obstacles at those levels. Design your adventures accordingly, paying careful attention to the ritual descriptions in the Player's Handbook. Don't give the characters less than they're entitled to, but don't let them short-circuit your whole adventure by using rituals, either. For instance, the Observe Creature ritual requires the caster to be extremely specific when describing the ritual's intended target. If allowing the ritual to succeed would throw a monkey wrench into your plans for the adventure, you'd be within your rights to rule that the ritual failed to locate the intended target because the caster's description wasn't specific enough. Also, remember that high-level villains have access to the same rituals that the characters do, including wards they can use to protect themselves from scrying attempts.​

DMG, pages 97 - 98:

A CAKEWALK
Whether your characters are higher in level than the adventure intended, or better equipped, or just more inventive and tactically savvy, sometimes they overcome the encounters you throw at them without ever feeling seriously challenged. Fortunately, solving that problem is easy.

You can adjust encounter levels upward using the three techniques described in the previous pages: add monsters, increase monster levels, or substitute monsters. You can also alter terrain to give the monsters a home field advantage and challenge the players' tactical mastery. Watch what your players do and use the same tactic against them.​

I'm afraid I disagree with the DMG on all counts mentioned here. One of the reasons I prefer to run a sandbox-style game is so that I can reward clever thinking by the players. Just as failure should mean that the story continues, so, too, should success.

If I, as a DM, fail to anticipate and prepare for my players' choices, I am not adverse to taking a brief break to plot out the new course for the adventure. My players would much prefer that to having their actions fail because they were too successful.