Rituals

[Bayonet_Chris]

I love what I've seen so far. Cure Disease just made me warm inside, because that's exactly what I wanted from them - a price for failure. I'm surprised they decided not to have a similar toll on the Raise Dead; I would make it a skill check (Heal is listed, although I'd lean towards Arcane), the creature's level as a negative modifier (the underworld being disinclined to give up such a powerful soul), and the possibility of raising something else instead of your buddy.

 

[Andor]

Good preview! Some things I really like here.

The fact that ritual magic is divorced from normal spellcasting is a good thing. It allow me to, for example, make a fighter whose studies of the use of misdirection and deception in warfare have lead him to studying Illusion magic.

The fact that different skills play into the rituals is cool. Although I'm amused to note that after all of the "Hallelujah! The Ranger has no magic!" posts that his built in Nature skill makes him a natural for some types of ritual magic.

I'm not exactly sure why the Cure Disease ritual potentially blowing people up like the opening scene of Scanners is a good thing though.

[sblock=The Good News is that we cured his headaches!]

[/sblock]

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I'm not exactly sure why the Cure Disease ritual potentially blowing people up like the opening scene of Scanners is a good thing though.

Because getting a disease becomes something to be concerned about rather than a speedbump until the cleric takes the spell the next time the party rests?

 

[Lacyon]

I love what I've seen so far. Cure Disease just made me warm inside, because that's exactly what I wanted from them - a price for failure. I'm surprised they decided not to have a similar toll on the Raise Dead; I would make it a skill check (Heal is listed, although I'd lean towards Arcane), the creature's level as a negative modifier (the underworld being disinclined to give up such a powerful soul), and the possibility of raising something else instead of your buddy.

That sounds really cool to do in the right circumstances.

However, when the Cleric rolls really low on Cure Disease, your friend at the gaming table is out a few surges (assuming he gets greater than zero). When the cleric rolls really low on a Raise Dead check, your friend at the gaming table has to sit out a while longer than he already has.

There are ways to deal with this, but I think it's better that the default toll on Raise Dead is more conducive to getting players back into the game.

 

[SuperGnome]

Be very careful about this. Reading the excerpt and the implication of the wealth chart, the ritual system is designed so that it isn't "cheap" to use magic and thus, devalue the worth of skills.

This was one of the big problems with magic in previous editions that it quickly became cheap and easy to use magic thus, skills pretty much became worthless.

Very good point, and I agree there have been issues.

I do think that there was some balance though, since you had your limited spell slots a day. You couldn't just run around detecting at will (though you could for the duration).

I just think 10 minutes might be too much, but given your point, maybe not. It'd be something you'd use when you REALLY need to make it, and then you're still not sure. You'd have to risk all of your arcane ramblings hoping no nasties show up to put in their 2 cents. *8)

I still have a sour taste about the name vs effect, and 10 minutes is still probably too long by a factor of 2 IMO, but I agree with the heart of what you're saying. It also brings up a very good point. It's incredibly difficult to look at any one little piece of the 4e beast and see it's place in the greater whole.

 

[tafkamhokie]

I wonder if many DMs will houserule Identify back into the game as a ritual?

I'm thinking more the exact opposite. Since the players are back to old-fashioned "fiddle with it and see what it does," you will see more cursed items get house-ruled into games purely for DM amusement.

I kinda miss -2 swords and cursed berserkers. Without an identify ritual to protect you, those kinds of things become fun again.

 

[Mouseferatu]

You could have a house rule that casting a ritual requires you to be trained in the ritual's skill. That would cut down on fighters raising the dead.

*blink*

You know, now I have to go back and check my book. I always thought that was the case. But it may just have been an assumption on my part...

 

[Mouseferatu]

No longer can you make a quick get-away during combat if you come across a locked door during your escape route. That kind of sucks. Not that Knock saw all that much use in my campaigns, but the option was at least there.

Sure you can. It just becomes the job of the rogue and his lockpicks, rather than the "I can solve everything!" wizard.

Which, IMO, is how it should be. 4E's design intent to make sure that magic rarely trumps skill use is a feature--and one long overdue--not a bug.

 

[Nebulous]

My gut reaction is to allow players to identify the "pluses" of a weapon per the rules, but require magic to determine the daily or encounter powers it might possess.

 

[Cadfan]

*blink*

You know, now I have to go back and check my book. I always thought that was the case. But it may just have been an assumption on my part...

If you find out the answer, can you let us know? I've asked whether that was the case, but no one has ever given me a reply.