Roger Zelazny's Amber: Any thoughts?

xenoflare: no one said you couldn't. The invitation to play is still open, if you can get away from school long enough. If anything, you can say that I'm giving you tuition with your Indonesian.

Hand of Evil: a Template is exactly what I'm thinking of, but I'm wondering what kind of boosts they get. I'm still fiddling with it, trying to gauge the power levels of Zelazny's characters, so I can decide on what the PCs will have.

And by the way, thanks for the help, all of you!
 

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Chasmodai said:
Hand of Evil: a Template is exactly what I'm thinking of, but I'm wondering what kind of boosts they get. I'm still fiddling with it, trying to gauge the power levels of Zelazny's characters, so I can decide on what the PCs will have.

And by the way, thanks for the help, all of you!

I think you have three different groups:
Blood of Amber - these are the stock, men of arms, weak-blooded that populate the City of Amber. They are the merchants, fighters, and such that Zelazany has in the background. They do not walk the pattern because their blood MAY not be strong enough to lead them to its end.

Prince of Amber - these are one or two generations removed, their blood burns with the power of Amber BUT have yet to wlk the pattern.

Pattern Walker - This is those that have walked the pattern.

Blood: +2 to STR, DEX and CON
Prince: +4 to STR, DEX and CON - maybe half-fiend templatish
Walker: +2 to STR, DEX and CON - would be a PrC template, at each increase of level adds number of elements of shadow to be changed. Something like sky, terrian, atmosphere, color, this way the character could speed through shadow the higher he is.
 

So a Walker gets less stat boosts than a Prince? I'm going to go outta my way here and assume you made these two templates to be stackable (considering that one is *usually* a Prince before a Walker).

Did I read you wrong?
 

Chasmodai said:
So a Walker gets less stat boosts than a Prince? I'm going to go outta my way here and assume you made these two templates to be stackable (considering that one is *usually* a Prince before a Walker).

Did I read you wrong?
That is correct, it would mean a blood that walked the pattern would equal a prince but a prince would always be the more powerful after walking it.

The big question what feats and skills to assign for each level of pattern walker, figure at level one shadow walk, level 2 shadow walk +2, level 10 trump creation, level 20 living trump
 
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I ran an Amber game for a little while and put together some notes for some of the abilities. I'll post my (incomplete) notes on Trump and Pattern here. If anyone develops this into something more complete could you post a link? I'd like to have a nice set of rules put together if--er, when--I run another Amber game in the future.

Pattern stuff will follow in another post.

Sorry if the format is all messy through here but this is sort of a quick hack-job.


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Trump in D&D

Trump use in Dungeons and Dragons will use the following rules. There are no actual Trump skills in this interpretation. Moreover, there are no real Trump powers. People are simply rated as Trump capable or not Trump capable. However, the more advanced effects require that characters acquire various Feats.

Some Conventions

Will Rolls:
A Will roll is a standard action roll using one's Will saving throw bonus. The DM may judge that certain bonuses to one's Will save don't apply for these actions (for instance, a Ring of Protection won't grant bonuses to one's Will check for breaking through a Trump Barrier or Forcing contact with someone).

Trump Feats
Trump Feats are available to anyone who is Trump capable. They also count as Metamagic Feats for purposes of being available to Wizards with their bonus Feats. What follows is a list of the various Feats associated with Trump.
In addition to listing what can be done with the various Feats here each of the various actions described later in this paper will list any Required Feats.

Basic Trump Tricks
This feat allows some basic special actions to be performed with Trump.
Prerequisite:
Benefits: This allows some of the various minor special Trump actions, Forcing Contact with a person, Trump Gate, Repairing a Trump Image, Quiet Contact.

Advanced Trump Tricks:
Prerequisite: Basic Trump Tricks
Benefits: This allows Trump Disguise, Trump Jamming, Dominate.

Expert Trump Tricks:
Prerequisite: Advanced Trump Tricks
Benefits: This allows Latent Contact, Trump Eavesdropping.

Basic Trump Artist
This feat covers the creation and construction of Trumps.
Prerequisite: Advanced Trump Tricks, Trump Sensing
Benefits: This allows the following special Trump actions: Trump Artist, Trump Sketches.

Advanced Trump Artist
This feat covers the creation and construction of Trumps.
Prerequisite: Expert Trump Tricks, Trump Memory
Benefits: This allows the following special Trump actions: Trumps of the Unpowered, Trumps for the Unpowered.

Trump Sensing
This feat allows the character to perform certain forms of passive sensation through trumps.
Prerequisite: Basic Trump Tricks
Benefits: This allows Trump Identification, Trump Scanning.

Trump Memory
This Feat may be picked multiple times. It allows one to memorize Trumps for later use.
Prerequisite: Basic Trump Artist
Benefits: The character with this feat may choose 8 + (Intelligence Bonus) Trumps to memorize. A memorized Trump can be used just like a regular Trump but the Trump does not need to be pulled out or otherwise accessed. The character may choose to forget a Trump and then memorize a new one. This takes about one week of time. It also takes about one week for the character to memorize his initial allotment of Trumps.


Trump Conflict and Use

Use of Trumps:
It takes 1 move action to pull a deck of Trumps out and sift through them to the Trump you want; just pulling out a random Trump or pulling out a Trump that you've set specially aside counts is a free action. Activating a Trump is a Standard action. Finally, stepping through a Trump is a Full Round action. It also takes a Standard action to answer a Trump contact.
If you are maintaining, answering, or opening a Trump contact you must Concentrate as if concentrating for a spell. Both parties do not need to use a concentrate action maintaining contact; as long as one of the two parties does so then the contact remains open.
While maintaining a Trump contact you are distracted, and receive a -2 to all other actions (including armor class and most Will and Reflex Saving throws). This distraction even applies if someone else is doing the maintaining. The only exception is that Trump users with more advanced Trump skills can maintain a quiet contact with someone. The advanced user maintains the contact and the person being contacted suffers no distractions (he can communicate through the Trump at only a minimal level though, and needs to spend an action to do anything significant through the Trump link).
If you are Trumping to a place the above sequence is all that is required. But if you are Trumping to a person you generally have to concentrate each turn while waiting for the person on the other end to answer the Trump call (obviously, if you are in trouble then you better contact a place, or a person who is very reliable).

Pulling out and using a Trump provokes attacks of opportunity as if casting a spell. Merely answering a Trump contact does not.

Trump Conflict:
Because the use of trumps allows direct mind to mind contact between the participants it also serves as a simple channel to attack someone psychically. This means that every trump contact carries an inherent risk. The being on the other end of the contact might use this opening to engage in direct mind vs. mind battle. There are other dangers as well. Some people might be able to listen in on your trump communication, and perhaps even step in and attack you even though you were talking to someone else. Even trumping to locations carries a danger. The location may be monitored. It could even be sentient, and malignant.

Psychic conflict with trump uses the participants' Will saving throw bonuses. The DM may decide that certain bonuses to one's Will save do not apply to this roll, or only apply defensively (e.g. a Ring of Protection).
Needless to say, Trump conflict can only be initiated against those with the ability to use Trumps. There might be rare cases where you can Trump someone who cannot ordinarily use Trumps (this will probably require a special Trump). That person is then as vulnerable as any other Trump user.

Trump conflict should be considered as something like grappling. The initial contact is like the initial grab. Once contact is made both communicants have a hold on each other. Once that hold is established they can each then decide to exploit the hold or try to gain some form of advantage. Thus a trump contact is not unlike shaking hands; you are both essentially putting yourself at the other's mercy.

Distractions During Combat:
Trump conflict is more distracting than normal trump usage. If you are engaged in trump conflict, or are trying to initiate contact then you must choose one of the following two options: Trump focused (you are focusing your attention on the trump battle) or Physical focused (you are concentrating your attention on physical concerns).
If you are trump focused you suffer no penalties on your trump actions but suffer -3 on all physical actions (including armor class and Reflex saving throws; note though that Will saving throws no longer suffer a penalty since you're using it so strenuously) and can only make 5 foot step moves.
If you are physical focused you suffer a -2 on physical actions (you are still in Trump contact after all) and a -2 on Trump actions (including resistance rolls).
If you are simply trying to resist an initial contact that is being forced on you, you suffer a -1 penalty that can either be applied to Trump actions or physical actions as you see fit.

Initial Contact:
In most situations initial contact will be made by one person initiating a trump call and another person answering the trump call. If this occurs then both participants are considered to be in contact. The other method of making contact is by one character forcing contact upon another.
There are 3 levels of contact possible. The first level is surface contact. It is the most common and is what happens when one first makes trump contact. Surface contact allows active communication or scanning of thoughts that are actually being concentrated on for sending. Second level communication grants deep access. Deep contact allows characters to read each others actual thoughts and easily accessed memories. This can be used to transmit an image to another character. Third level contact is total contact. Total contact allows deep probes of the other's subconscious and can allow contact with unconscious or comatose individuals. Total contact is difficult to achieve even when both parties are willing.
Note that contact is a two way street. If you have deep contact with someone he has deep contact with you. Deep contact should only be allowed with someone you trust.

Forcing Contact: (Basic Trump Tricks)
This should be a rare and difficult occurrence. In order to force someone into trump contact the initiator not only needs to be far superior in mental power, but also needs to have the trump talents to back up that power.
In order to force contact the attacker must have the necessary trump image (naturally); this can be a card or memorized image. The attacker must then overcome the target's willpower in a psychic duel.
The attacker attempts to force contact by using a concentrate action. The attacker makes a contested Will saving throw roll with the defender. The defender may choose to Take 10 on this defense roll. Because forcing contact is particularly difficult and strenuous the attacker suffers an additional -5 penalty to his attack roll and must expend 1d8 hit points to initiate the attack. If the initial attempt fails the attacker can try again by spending another 1d8 hit points and taking an additional -2 to his roll (cumulative).

Similar rules can be used to simulate an attempt to force contact across some form of Trump barrier (though the attacker will be attacking the barrier instead of the target). Doing this does not require the Basic Trump Tricks Feat. One can assume that the barrier defends as if it were the person who created it or give it a standard difficulty class that applies to all attempts at Trump contact. Note that even requiring a roll is more difficult than normal so assessing an additional penalty implies that the Trump barrier is particularly strong. Others may help in this process; simply treat this as the Aid Another action (pg 135 PH, also pg 62 for Cooperation). If one of the helpers is secretly resisting then raise the DC by 4 or raise it to his effective total roll if that would be higher. Trying to force contact through a Trump barrier also costs 1d8 hit points, just like forcing contact normally.
All forced contact, once successful, initiates surface contact.

Some Difficulty Classes for typical Trump Barriers:

Barrier DC **need to fill in DC's for these and other possibilities**
Wall of Force
The Original Pattern


The Battle:
Once contact has been established both combatants can now make mental attacks against one another. No actual physical attacks are allowed (though physical attacks can be used to describe the visual effect).

Anyone can perform a mental attack through Trump. Likewise, people get all their normal mental defenses against Trump attacks.

Mental Attack Rolls via Trump:
The process of handling this is, again, much like a grappling attack. The attacker makes an Opposed Will roll.
One can expend extra effort to increase the chance of success of these rolls. By sacrificing 1d6 hit points either participant can get a +2 to his roll. This can be increased even further but a second +2 costs 2d6 more hit points (a total of 3d6 hit points). The third +2 costs 3d6 more hit points (total of 6d6 damage). This cumulative increase can continue. The bonus only applies to one roll.
Generally speaking spells and physical actions cannot be performed through a Trump link. However, psionic powers can be so used. More rules regarding this will be forthcoming once the Psionic powers book has been released.


Actions in Trump Battles:
What follows is a short list of actions that are available in Trump battles. The actions typically include the rules necessary to implement them. Normal combat actions are still available (and may be necessary if some bastard is engaging you in Trump battle while you are in the midst of a physical battle).

Maintaining Contact:
This is like maintaining a hold. If neither communicant performs one of these actions the trump contact is broken. Typically the communicant who initiated the battle (and also happens to be in a safe location) will be the one maintaining contact.
This action gives a -3 penalty to physical actions and only allows step moves. This action is subsumed under other sorts of Trump actions. Thus, when one tries to increase the contact level, dominate the target, or use some other ability, he is also assumed to be maintaining contact.

Increase Contact Level from Surface to Deep:
This will raise the contact level from 1 to 2. If the other side is willing it simply happens, and the level goes up by one.
* If the other side is unwilling this requires a standard mental attack at -5. The level is raised by one once if the attacker succeeds beats the defender in a contested Will roll. If this action fails then making another attempt costs 1d8 hit points and incurs a -2 cumulative penalty to the attempt.
* Once the participants are at deep contact they both suffer a -2 penalty to defense rolls against damaging psychic attacks from each other. Damaging psychic attacks include many kinds of psionic attacks as well as the psychic crushing action described later.

Increase Contact Level from Deep to Total:
This will raise the contact level from 2 to 3. Even if the other side is willing this set of rolls must be made (or role-played). This is because it is extremely unnatural to open your mind to this extent. Only one side needs to succeed and that opens level 3 contact both ways.
* This requires a standard mental attack at a -10 penalty and requires the expenditure of 1d8 hit points to even attempt this. Additional attempts can be made but the penalty goes up cumulatively by -3 and the damage goes up cumulatively by 1d8 (thus the third attempt is at a total of -6 and costs 3d8 hit points). The minimum initial DC of this action is 25. The target can choose not to resist this roll but the minimum DC remains in place.
* At total contact both participants suffer a -5 to defense rolls against psychic attacks. Moreover, any psychic shields either side possesses are bypassed.

Lower Contact Level:
This allows a character to downgrade the contact, or break contact entirely. Cooperation means that it happens with no dice roll required.
* The character can try to break contact by making a standard mental attack roll. If successful the contact level is lowered by 1. If the level is lowered below Surface contact (below level 1) then the Trump contact is broken.
* The character can attempt to lower the contact by two levels at once by taking a -5 on the roll, or attempt to lower it three levels at once by taking a -10 on the roll.

Dominate: (Advanced Trump Tricks)
This is a standard mental attack. If this action is successful then the victim is temporarily pinned (much the same as in a regular grappling action). The victim may make Escape attempts later. These are handled as if trying to break contact. One level of lowering contact breaks the Domination, extra levels can be used to lower the actual contact level. Attempting to break free costs 1d6-1 hit points (thus it can cost 0 hit points). While the victim is dominated the attacker can choose to use a more mundane form of attack through the Trump contact (such as a physical or magical attack). This is handled like attacking while in a grapple (but the attacker can cast spells with Somatic and/or Material components if necessary). He can also choose to step through to the target, or pull the victim through the link. While dominated the victim takes a -4 to his armor class and loses Dexterity and Dodge bonuses against people attacking him physically.


Special Uses of Trumps

Trump Identification: (Trump Sensing)
One can identify the person calling by pulling out one's Trumps, sifting through them and detecting the subtle signals sent off by the Trump of the person calling you. This requires a Full-Round action to perform. It is automatically successful (assuming they're not trying Trump Disguise) and you end up knowing who is calling you.
This will not work if you do not possess the correct Trump (though it will tell you that the caller is not from one of your Trumps).

Trump Disguise: (Advanced Trump Tricks)
Skilled Trump users can attempt to mask their call as being from another person. This requires that the character have a trump of the target and a trump of the person he is going to mask himself as. He then makes a Bluff skill roll against the victim at -2 in order to pull off this trick (it's more difficult because of the intimacy of the connection). This Bluff will work to trick people using Trump Identification. The character must still use some other means to disguise his physical appearance (this is not immediately necessary since appearances are not revealed until surface contact is made). A normal Disguise roll can be made for these purposes or magical means may be relied on.

Trump Gate: (Basic Trump Tricks)
By making a Trump skill roll a character can open a Trump gate. This gate acts like an open portal through which objects can freely pass. Doing this requires a person on each side of the link but only one of them needs to have the ability. If successful a doorway sized portal opens up (about 3 feet wide by 7 feet high).
Maintaining a Trump Gate requires Concentrate actions from both participants to maintain.

Trump Jamming: (Advanced Trump Tricks)
Jamming a Trump requires a contested Will roll with the victim and costs 1d8 hit points to attempt. Once established the victim to must make a Will roll when he wants to use the Trump as if he were trying to Force contact across a Trump Barrier with a DC equal to your Will Save bonus + 10 (i.e. your Will Save as if you Took 10). You can try to jam more than one trump at a time by taking an additional -2 to your roll (and attendant Trump Barrier DC) for each doubling of the number of Trumps jammed. It takes a Concentrate action to jam trumps and maintain that jamming. You must have the victim's trump available.

Trump Eavesdropping: (Expert Trump Tricks)
One can eavesdrop on others use of Trumps. You must have one of the parties' Trumps and make a contested Intelligence roll (the Victim automatically takes 20 on this roll since it is assumed that he has time to notice the effect). If this roll is failed by more than 5 then the victim notices that someone was trying to listen in on his Trump contact; if the roll is failed by 10 then the victim notices precisely who was listening in on his Trump contact.
Eavesdropping only allows the character to detect surface communications. Note that even when two individuals are at deep contact much of their communication effectively transpires at the surface level.
This can even be used against someone who is not currently using Trump as a sort of telepathy. This sort of use incurs a penalty of -10 to the Trump Sensing roll and only allows the reading of surface thoughts.

Trump Scanning: (Trump Sensing)
You can scan your available Trumps to see if they are currently being used. This requires a Scry roll against DC 15 plus the Intelligence (or Scry) bonus of the target. You can Take 10 on this roll but cannot take 20.

Quiet Contact: (Basic Trump Tricks)
This allows one to maintain Trump contact with someone while not causing them to suffer a distraction (see the rules on basic Trump use).

Latent Contact: (Expert Trump Tricks)
This is an advanced version of Quiet Contact. Someone who can do this can keep a Surface Contact channel open with another person and not suffer any distractions of his own. The person on the other side can break the contact at will. Also, when a person is maintaining a latent contact he does not need to concentrate to leave it open. However, he must make Concentration checks much as a Wizard does when he suffers damage or is startled (merely being in combat doesn't require Concentration checks).

Creating Trumps
This section covers the construction of Trumps in various forms. Making Trumps involves having the appropriate Feats and also making Perform skill checks. Note that Perform is taken to be a fairly broad skill and, for the purposes here, also covers painting or drawing (though some might prefer that a separate skill dealing solely with art be invented). In part I use Perform because that gives Bards a natural head start on Trump and Bards strike me as being somewhat naturally better with Trumps anyway.

All Trump creation skill checks can be done as Take 10 or Take 20 actions by spending the appropriate amount of time.


Trump Artist: (Basic Trump Artist)
Creating a Trump is a fairly simple process. You must have the Perform Skill at Rank 5 or higher. Constructing a Trump takes 20 minutes if the subject is present (and modeling) and is a DC 25 Perform skill check.
You can create a trump from memory by spending 1 hour and making a Perform skill check against DC 30 (you can take 10 on this roll or take 20 times as long and take 20 as usual). This penalty can be increased if the character has a poor recollection of the scene. Some sort of photographic memory grants a +5 bonus to this roll.
It costs experience points to make Trumps, just as if making a magic item. The cost for a regular Trump is 100 xp.

Trump Sketches: (Basic Trump Artist)
Temporary Trump sketches can be made in 5 minutes with a DC 20 Perform skill check. Trump sketches from memory are only DC 25. These trump images last only as long as the medium supports them or for 2d6 days, whichever is less (the power supporting them fades quickly).

Repairing a Trump Image: (Basic Trump Tricks)
Corwin repairs a trump sketch made by Dworkin in the first book of the series. This ability mirrors that action. Doing this requires a DC 15 Perform skill check and restores a Trump Sketch that still has it's material basis (the picture is still there) to its original condition (that is, recharges it for Trump use for another 2d6 days).

Trump Traps:
The simplest form of trump trap is making a trump of a dangerous location or entity and then leaving it lying around. Amberites tend to be recklessly curious and will often investigate the trump on their own initiative.
Other traps may be set on Trumps. Spells can be locked into them, psionic traps can be set on them, and so forth. The specific rules typically are in accordance with the particular spell or effect.

Trumps of the Unpowered: (Advanced Trump Artist)
One can create a Trump of someone without the ability to use trumps. This requires a Perform skill check against DC 30 and takes 2 hours due to its difficulty. The subject can then be contacted via that particular Trump as if he had the Trump power. The subject must be present to model for the artist.
The experience cost for a Trump of the Unpowered is 250 xp.

Trumps for the Unpowered: (Advanced Trump Artist)
Special Trumps can be made that anyone can use. These are extremely difficult to make. Make a Perform roll against DC 35. It takes 8 hours to complete the work.
The experience cost for a Trump for the Unpowered is 1000 xp.
 

Oops, my Pattern in D&D file is still actually my Pattern in GURPS file--so not terribly useful yet though it could serve as a basis for translation.


Anyway, d20 has worked pretty well for Amber since you have access to such a wide variety of campaign settings (i.e. Shadows).

The presence of Trumps--even moreso than high Amberite stats and healing--changes the game pretty heavily. You can still throw a dungeon crawl at the players but they can often come and go as they please.

The game I played was online, which is a real headache, so it'd be fun to see how a FtF game turned out.

I'd probably use massive damage threshold from d20 Modern and maybe even defense bonuses--the only thing that would hold me back is the annoyance of having so little source material for d20 Modern. Even those small changes add up when you're trying to map out the entirety of the multi-verse.

I was thinking Amberites should have something like Action points--but with more juice--to represent their ability to control shadow. Perhaps they can't use them in Castle Amber.

Anyway, Amber is a lot of fun and, like others have said, you can not worry too much about game mechanics since so much goes on through talking. Still, I likes me my mechanics and a good scrap or two.
 

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