D&D 5E Rogue assassins/handheld crossbows

[Illithidbix]

This thread title did make me realise how odd the term "rogue assassin" is:

"Did our agent successfully assassinate the bishop?"
"Regretfully not sire, they went rogue."
"Damnit! Why does this keep happening?"

Despite the fact that the Hand crossbow has the light property, Rereading the rules:

TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING

When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.

If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.

RAW the Hand Crossbow is a light ranged weapon, not a light melee weapon.
So only if you have the Crossbow expert feat can you dodge this.

and the PHB errata

Ammunition (p. 146). Loading a one-handed weapon requires a free hand.

But again, I'd probably be happy for a player to get one shot off from duel wielding loaded hand crossbows.
I might ask questions about how they intend to open doors whilst carrying said loaded crossbows however...

 

[Crgaston]

But again, I'd probably be happy for a player to get one shot off from duel wielding loaded hand crossbows.
I might ask questions about how they intend to open doors whilst carrying said loaded crossbows however...

An armspan length lanyard connecting the two and run behind the ñeck would allow one (or both) to be released and regrasped quite easily.

 

[Illithidbix]

An armspan length lanyard connecting the two and run behind the ñeck would allow one (or both) to be released and regrasped quite easily.

... This is quite practical but in my head I can only think of it like a mum attaching a child's mittens with elastic so they don't lose them.

 

[cmad1977]

... This is quite practical but in my head I can only think of it like a mum attaching a child's mittens with elastic so they don't lose them.

'Don't go losing those crossbows kiddo, gramma made those for you special!'

'Mooooooom!!'

 

[Illithidbix]

'Don't go losing those crossbows kiddo, gramma made those for you special!'

'Mooooooom!!'

"But Mooom! I'm a rogue assassin!

 

[cmad1977]

"But Mooom! I'm a rogue assassin!

'And so cute too! Now run along and don't be late for supper!'

 

[sunrisekid]

I have a rogue-assassin at the table. We follow the errated interpretation: single handcrossbow, crossbow expert feat, grants a bonus attack.

Personally, I would allow the bonus attack with a light off-hand melee weapon, too, which I saw debated elsewhere on this forum. Think of a scenario where the assassin shoots a target, then moves in to deal a bonus melee attack. Disengages on the following round, moves to cover while sheathing the dagger, reloads crossbow, fires from cover. I think that can all happen with RAW game mechanics.

 

[CapnZapp]

I have a rogue-assassin at the table. We follow the errated interpretation: single handcrossbow, crossbow expert feat, grants a bonus attack.

Just FYI: none of those things require errata. You can use a single hand crossbow with the crossbow expert feat to get a bonus attack with the original PHB text just fine. The errata is about other stuff.

The key is that Crossbow Expert requires only that you use a one-handed weapon with your Attack action to get the hand crossbow bonus attack.

A hand crossbow is a one-handed weapon. And the feat voids the Loading quality.

Ergo: you can make all your attacks with one and the same hand crossbow. A level 5 rogue would make two attacks with the hand crossbow, fulfilling the feat's requirement, and then a third attack with the same hand crossbow.

Personally, I would allow the bonus attack with a light off-hand melee weapon, too, which I saw debated elsewhere on this forum. Think of a scenario where the assassin shoots a target, then moves in to deal a bonus melee attack. Disengages on the following round, moves to cover while sheathing the dagger, reloads crossbow, fires from cover. I think that can all happen with RAW game mechanics.

Per RAW, the dagger attack needs to be made using the main Attack action, and the bonus attack granted by Crossbow Expert must be a hand crossbow attack.

But that's a mere quibble. No balance is upset if you do the dagger attack last, and the hand crossbow attack first. Just as long as you make at least one hand crossbow attack, and one other attack using a one-handed weapon (that could well be the hand crossbow too), you are working within the spirit of the rules and nothing gets broken.

 

[Eltab]

With the proper preparation, you can get off a 2-hand-crossbow Alpha Strike with the Assassin abilities in play.

But as DM, I would make you set this up as an ambush. You can't just pop it every single fight for Round One.

 

[CapnZapp]

With the proper preparation, you can get off a 2-hand-crossbow Alpha Strike with the Assassin abilities in play.

But as DM, I would make you set this up as an ambush. You can't just pop it every single fight for Round One.

Could you elaborate, please?