Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

The flaw was described to the rebels before they had the plans. The plans told them how to exploit it.

I can mostly roll with that. But, from what I remember from seeing episode IV so many years ago, the presentation was more that the flaw was just discovered. It's one of many small issues that detract from the movie.

Not saying that it wasn't enjoyable, but not nearly as good as episode VII, I thought.

Thx!
TomB
 

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I can mostly roll with that. But, from what I remember from seeing episode IV so many years ago, the presentation was more that the flaw was just discovered.

Bear in mind that it's only Jyn who actually knows there is a flaw. The Rebels basically just had to hope that she was telling the truth about her father's message, and that they could find it in time.

Honestly, one thing that always slightly bugged me about Episode IV was that the Rebels were able to analyse the plans to a giant space station in however-many hours they had between arriving on Yavin IV and the Death Star following them, find an exploitable weakness that the Empire had completely missed, and formulate an attack plan to exploit it. Rogue One actually shores up that plot hole by showing us that they didn't have to trawl through the entire schematic in that time - they were looking for a fairly specific exploit.
 

Loved it.

This was a good movie not just a good Star Wars movie. Far, FAR more mature than previous SW movies. Me and my girls were just blown away.

Instead of pure white hats fighting black hats, we get a very nuanced depiction of the alliance and the rebels. No one is on the side of angels. The part where Jin says it's easy to walk away if you never look up is such a powerful line.

I'd LOVE to see a directors cut of this too.

And making Vader properly terrifying is just icing. I hope they borrow from the recent Vader comics to make a movie.
 

Liked it rather than loved it - easily the best of the new films (and by new I mean anything after the original trilogy). Didn't particularly like the CGI actors (although the CGI was very good). As others have said, I think if they'd used broadly similar actors I'd have accepted them more easily. Leia at the end was almost "showing off" as they could've used lighting/just shooting from behind/the usual in camera trickery for the same effect.

Don't know how to feel about the Vader final cameo (the first one was a bit redundant); on the one hand it was great to see how awesome Vader unleashed is, but on the other hand I have a lot of sympathy with the less is more view.

My order of preference would be:

V
VI (despite the ewoks, the Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes are epic)
IV
R1
VII
III
II
I
 

I can mostly roll with that. But, from what I remember from seeing episode IV so many years ago, the presentation was more that the flaw was just discovered. It's one of many small issues that detract from the movie.

Not saying that it wasn't enjoyable, but not nearly as good as episode VII, I thought.

Thx!
TomB

For me, it's a rather different thing. "Rogue One" fills in plot holes I saw in the original movie. It's the prequel that the original movies deserved. For me it's the second movie in my list of four (I don't consider the prequels worth counting), behind only "The Empire Strikes Back."
 

Further thoughts...

The more I try to convince myself that I liked the movie, the more I start to feel like I didn't. There are just too many things about the movie which bug me. I think it creates more plot holes than it fixes. (Maybe not holes exactly; perhaps plot windows is more accurate.) The main character wasn't really that interesting, and she seemed less like a character and more like than a plot device to drive forward a plot that really wasn't that strong to begin with.

What do I mean?

The whole point behind the character existing or having anything to do with the story seems to rest on the fact that she's connected to other characters. Her dad is building the Death Star, and the guy who raised her is in charge of a militant group who has possession of a pilot. Beyond that, I'm not sure there is a reason for the character to be there, and, in many ways, I think the story would make more sense if it didn't hinge upon Jyn.

Galen Erso agrees to build a weapon of mass destruction based on some pretty flimsy motivations. I can understanding wanting to protect your family, but you already witnessed your wife being shot right in front of you. So why would you have any faith in the idea that your daughter would be sage even if you did build the Death Star?

Furthermore, what are the chances that the Empire would even be able to find your daughter? She seemed to have no problem flying under the radar from age 7-ish until about 30. One on world, it's hard enough to find someone. What are the chances she would be found in a galaxy far far away?

With that in mind, it seems that Galen builds a weapon capable of killing everyone on a planet based on thin and somewhat convoluted reasoning. ...and he does this for the railroaded reasoning of thinking that maybe somehow he could build a flaw into the design and leak that design to an enemy force. So, it seems reasonable that his daughter might be captured in light of astronomical odds, but somehow the idea of some random pilot safely carrying the information to the murderous and unhinged leader of a militant rebel group and surviving all while avoiding the same Empire which would capture Jyn seems reasonable? I'm willing to ignore a lot of things in movie plots for the same of cinematic enjoyment, but the whole story of Galen and Jyn asks me to ignore a lot of things for the narrative to make sense, and, even then, it's a thin and flimsy motivation for a character.

I don't think Rogue One was a very good Star Wars movie. I do not believe it was a very good war movie either. The combat scenes are too often choreographed in a way which make absolutely no sense in terms of combat or tactics. Even if I try to consider that sacrifices were made to maintain genre and SW franchise expectations, it still doesn't make any sense.

"Hey, we're a whole squad of Storm Troopers. There's one guy with a stick in the middle of a street. We could shoot him, but, instead, we'll all walk together until we're within melee range and get beat down with a stick."

Don't get me wrong, I thought the blind pseudo-Jedi monk was a cool character. However, the scenes were constructed in such a way that they did more to showcase how stupid and useless Storm Trooper training must be rather than being constructed in such a way that they allowed the character to be cool. Having the Empire be so lackluster and pathetic manages to undercut how I perceive the skill of the Rebels. It came across as a movie which was maybe made for an adult audience when the themes of war were explored, but then the film was given the logical sensibilities of a cartoon or kids' movie. Had it been done well, the film would have adequately served both target audiences. As it stands, my opinion is that it falls far short of doing either particularly well.

The space battle was passable with a few near-awesome moments. Unfortunately, I feel that those possibly awesome moments were somewhat lost in the somewhat muddled and convoluted reasoning for the action. I understood why the battle was taking place. I understood why the ground battle was important. I understood all of the individual pieces. I do not feel the individual pieces were woven together in a very coherent combat narrative. Really, that's how a feel about the movie as a whole.

There are a lot of elements in the movie that I think were really cool. K2-S0 was a well rounded character, and it was nice to see a droid with a different role than what we've seen previously. He did a good job of combining Star Wars style Droid Comedy with the big beefy pilot's sidekick role.

As mentioned already, Chirrut Imwe (blind pseudo-Jedi monk) was an interesting character also. It was a nice embodiment of what it might be like to still follow a faith which was on the losing end of a conflict. I also liked that it was left ambiguous as to whether or not the Force was helping him. Though, with that in mind, I'm again reminded why I was upset at how incompetent The Empire is made to look. As I'm watching the movie, part of my mind wants to buy into the idea that I'm not sure if he's using the Force, but then part of my brain kicks in and says "nah, these are just some of the worst Storm Troopers ever."

Baze Malbus was a cool character as well. I'm not sure if this was the intent, but he seemed as though he had stepped right out of 40K (or Edge of The Empire) and into a Star Wars movie. His parts in movie were well constructed for the most part.

I could go on and one, but the point is the same. There are a lot of parts to the movie that I liked. Unfortunately, I didn't like the movie as a whole. Instead of this movie, I think Rogue One would have been far better as episodes of a mini series which introduced each character, gave them time to shine, and then wove them together into a better and more coherent story. I also think that eliminating the character of Jyn Erso and having a more straightforward narrative to explain the importance of Galen Erso would be better.

In hindsight, while I loved seeing Vader in action, I feel like maybe that could have been done better too. Vader is a good villain because he's charismatic, menacing, and foreboding. He's like the embodiment of a Hitchcock Horror film. Instead of building that throughout the movie and climaxing with action, Rogue One decides to throw in a seemingly pointless scene of Vader earlier in the movie as an unnecessary wink to the audience and then hopes to use the last sequence in the film to make me forget that I wasn't really into the rest of the movie. The last sequence is actually pretty cool, but the reason why it does such a great job of making me forget the rest of the movie is because the rest of the movie fails to make an impression and is easily forgettable.

I tried really hard to like the movie, but I don't think that I do. Rogue One is the Suicide Squad of the Star Wars movie franchise. While I believe that Rogue One is a better movie than Suicide Squad, I also believe that Rogue One fails for a lot of the same reasons. It has a lot of nods to the fans and the fictional world in which it exists, but it doesn't deliver. I don't hate it, but it's disappointing and a little bit depressing when I think about what it could have been when I look at the individual parts compared to what it actually was as a whole when those parts were put together.

In the end, it's hard to fathom that 40 year old movies made using muppets and 1970s special effects manage to feel more believable than what came out of Rogue One's 200 Million Dollar Budget.
 



The reason the Storm Troopers approach the blind man instead of outright shooting him at range is because he's a blind man. He can't be a threat, just nuisance, they probably think. (Especially since the Jedi are gone anyway). A lot of his effectiveness in combat also relies in making enemies basically do his work for him. His stick might hurt, but is not a threat on its own against the armored troopers.

The first scene with Vader seemed a bit superflous, but I think it has a narrative role at least - it mirrors the different locations the heroes visit once the "current" action begins. Too many movies (and especially Force Awakens seemed to be so) seem to have a lot of "total accidental timining that works well for the story". But here, each of the sides have reasons to do certain things, and there is basically a fixed starting point for all of them before they can't actually do what they do in the story - only once the defection of the Imperial Pilot with the message is revealed, both sides start springing into action.
(Of course, FTL travel times are still at the speed of the plot.)



I liked the characters overall, and I think they did establish was they were capable and who they were reasonably well.
Jyn is described as a good fighter (one of Gerrera's best) way after they already established her abilities on screen already - her fight during her escape attempt, the fight on Jedah, and her ability to steal a weapon while basically in Rebel captivity. And we also see that she can care about some things - like when she tried to rescue that girl. (Tried because I doubt her mother went off-world with the kid before the Death Star did his job.)
Cassian doesn't get as much chance to establish himself, but we still get to see some of it - when he kills his informant to keep him from being captured, the dirty deeds he did for the Rebellion were established.
 

If we're going to start talking about "weak plots", then I'm afraid the whole series will suffer ;)

That's a fair point. Still, even by those standards, it was a little hard to buy. The lack of structure in the first 30 minutes or so of the movie didn't help either. While a lot of the locations looked cool, they served no purpose, and they were done so quickly that they felt more like excuses to justify needing a big budget than they felt like they added anything to the story.

The reason the Storm Troopers approach the blind man instead of outright shooting him at range is because he's a blind man. He can't be a threat, just nuisance, they probably think. (Especially since the Jedi are gone anyway). A lot of his effectiveness in combat also relies in making enemies basically do his work for him. His stick might hurt, but is not a threat on its own against the armored troopers.

The first scene with Vader seemed a bit superflous, but I think it has a narrative role at least - it mirrors the different locations the heroes visit once the "current" action begins. Too many movies (and especially Force Awakens seemed to be so) seem to have a lot of "total accidental timining that works well for the story". But here, each of the sides have reasons to do certain things, and there is basically a fixed starting point for all of them before they can't actually do what they do in the story - only once the defection of the Imperial Pilot with the message is revealed, both sides start springing into action.
(Of course, FTL travel times are still at the speed of the plot.)



I liked the characters overall, and I think they did establish was they were capable and who they were reasonably well.
Jyn is described as a good fighter (one of Gerrera's best) way after they already established her abilities on screen already - her fight during her escape attempt, the fight on Jedah, and her ability to steal a weapon while basically in Rebel captivity. And we also see that she can care about some things - like when she tried to rescue that girl. (Tried because I doubt her mother went off-world with the kid before the Death Star did his job.)
Cassian doesn't get as much chance to establish himself, but we still get to see some of it - when he kills his informant to keep him from being captured, the dirty deeds he did for the Rebellion were established.

I'll buy that they'd maybe walk toward him the first time or two. But then to just stand there and get beat down? I'm aware that similar tropes happen in kung-fu movies (and even some sci-fi movies), but I felt that it was poorly choreographed. For me personally, it did more to hurt the movie and the character than it helped. To be fair, it's likely that my own military experience in similar situations hurt some of my ability to ignore certain things.

Jyn being a good fighter is not in doubt. It's simply hard (for me) to understand why she's necessary as a character. She didn't appear to have any more information than what others already had, and I'm inclined to believe that -especially since everyone got killed anyway- the time devoted to her would have been better spent on other parts of the story.

She's only relevant because of the thin connection that she has to the motivations of two other characters.

If the intent was to aim for a war movie feel, I think the story would have been better served by extracting the information from the pilot and delving into the dark and dirty details of the Rebels needing to embrace some of their less desirable elements.

If the intent was to aim for a Star Wars movie feel, I think using the movie to illustrate and highlight a few parts of the setting and universe rather than the cinematic speed-dating that seemed to be done with people, places, things, and droids.

Sigh... I suppose I should drop it. I respect the right of others to like the movie. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that I was in the minority. I didn't think the third Hobbit movie was particularly good either (I'd actually say that I enjoyed Rogue One more.) It just blows my mind a little when I see a commercial on tv which exclaims "Best Star Wars movie ever!" I am struggling to comprehend whether or not I was watching the same movie.
 

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