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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 9217327" data-attributes="member: 6799660">IMO, we'll never get to any kind of agreement on how valuable a Rogue's always-on skill benefits measure up to anyone else's burst benefits (and the same for their combat output), because no one ever agrees how many checks are likely to occur in an encounter, how many encounters there will be per day, or how many short rests one will be able to fit in (and whether they will occur between needs to use an expendable ability). Also, yes, wizards can do anything skills can do (and don't need a check), and might have the right spell to bring to bear at the right time (or not). Cue endless debate (which, if you're enjoying yourselves, please go ahead). The takeaway from this discussion I find fruitful is this:I think this is pretty accurate. It isn't the success/failure chances which I think need to be re-thought, it's what a skill check can do (and how well that is communicated in the rules) that need attention. A rogue could have the ability 'a rogue always succeeds on any uncontested skill check, and has advantage in any contested skill check against a non-rogue' and it won't change being 'the skill guy' just isn't that meaningful under certain DMs.</blockquote>